Meeting 2016 08 19

Call for meeting

Friday 2016/08/19 at 20:00 UTC

Agenda

Feel free to add to this before the meeting!

• Conservancy Application update
• Pump.io code development
• 1.0.0 release date
  • Skip testing phase? (No major changes and significantly less busted)
• Release procedure (e.g. signing?)
• Anti-XSS update
  • New threat model
• Jade transition is basically complete
• Express 3.x update
• Change log
• Community governance and sustainability
• Node adoption (sponsoring, administering)
• Adoption of non-node related websites (e.g. OpenFarmGame, ih8.it)
• Governance (non-profit status/application)
• Funding
• ActivityPub / Pubstrate / W3C SocialWG update
• Other stuff
• T-shirt designs
• CLAHub

Summary

Log

[22:01:28] <pumabot> #############################################################

[22:01:28] <pumabot> BEGIN LOG

[22:01:28] <pumabot> #############################################################

[22:01:28] <pumabot> Welcome to this month's Pump.io community meeting! Everyone is welcome to participate.

[22:01:28] <pumabot> This meeting is being logged and it will be posted on the wiki. If you would like your nick redacted, please say so, either now or after the meeting.

[22:01:28] <pumabot> Let's start with roll call - who's here?

[22:01:29] -*- pumabot is here

[22:01:52] -*- paroneayea is here

[22:01:56] <xmpp-pump> ***strugee is here

[22:02:19] -*- e_s_p is here

[22:02:31] -*- paroneayea reviewing changes from rhiaro for ActivityPub spec, so is only half paying attention :)

[22:02:35] <e_s_p> That's pretty cool

[22:02:46] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Nice!

[22:02:48] <paroneayea> (I have a lot of news on that front!)

[22:02:53] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Who wants to chair?

[22:03:36] <e_s_p> I can do it

[22:03:41] <e_s_p> Do I need to tell pumabot?

[22:03:48] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Nah

[22:03:51] <e_s_p> Here is the agenda https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Meeting-2016-08-19

[22:04:00] <e_s_p> Why don't we just go through this

[22:04:11] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Cool

[22:04:17] <e_s_p> First item is Conservancy Application update

[22:04:47] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: that's you right?

[22:05:12] <e_s_p> I yes

[22:05:27] -*- paroneayea adds an item to the agenda

[22:06:50] <e_s_p> larjona sent me a filled out file to send

[22:06:55] <e_s_p> A couple of weeks ago

[22:06:59] <e_s_p> I just sent it this second

[22:07:07] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] cool! sounds good

[22:07:10] <e_s_p> So now we wait for response from sfconservancy.org

[22:07:24] <e_s_p> Sorry for the delay, but that seemed like a task that could be done in real time

[22:07:38] <e_s_p> Next issue! Pump.io code development

[22:07:39] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] np

[22:07:47] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] ooo I have so many things to talk about

[22:07:49] <e_s_p> Let's talk about 1.0.0 release date

[22:08:21] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] yeah so we can do the release Real Soon Now(tm)

[22:08:28] <paroneayea> yay

[22:08:42] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] we have a plan for the XSS scrubber, which was the last blocker

[22:09:05] <e_s_p> Didn't we come to a decision last time around for this? I forget

[22:09:19] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: you suggested using Caja

[22:09:23] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] which I looked into

[22:09:43] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] there are Caja packages on npm but they're kind of sketchy and sometimes unmaintained

[22:09:44] <e_s_p> Ah cool

[22:10:00] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] and also IIRC Caja doesn't quite work for our case because we allow styles

[22:10:10] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] so we're using DOMPurify and some other stuff

[22:10:33] <e_s_p> OK, good enough

[22:10:45] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] since that'll be done in the next day or two I propose doing a release a week from now

[22:10:58] <e_s_p> Can we keep some style stuff and leave out obnoxious things?

[22:11:02] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] that doesn't leave that much time for testing but I don't think it matters because the existing release on npm doesn't work super well anyway so

[22:11:10] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: like what?

[22:11:10] <e_s_p> I'd think any url() or stuff like that would be bad

[22:11:22] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] DOMPurify will take care of that for us

[22:11:24] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] IIRC

[22:11:27] <e_s_p> Cool

[22:11:33] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I asked someone smarter than me how to do it :)

[22:11:46] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] thoughts on the plan? a week from today?

[22:11:54] <e_s_p> It would be nice to be able to keep bolds and italics and stuff without having problematic stuff

[22:11:57] <e_s_p> Sounds good here

[22:12:08] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] cool

[22:12:14] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] paroneayea?

[22:12:21] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: yeah DOMPurify will keep all that

[22:12:50] <paroneayea> strugee: what are you asking for my input on? when to 1.0 release?

[22:13:02] <-- ced117 left (Remote host closed the connection)

[22:13:04] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] paroneayea: I proposed releasing a week from today

[22:13:09] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] > that doesn't leave that much time for testing but I don't think it matters because the existing release on npm doesn't work super well anyway so

[22:13:16] <paroneayea> strugee: if you think it can be done, then do it

[22:13:16] <e_s_p> strugee: and this is the 1.0.0 release

[22:13:30] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] yep.

[22:13:31] <paroneayea> strugee: if there has to be a 1.0.1 too, that's fine

[22:13:32] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] 1.0.0

[22:13:37] <e_s_p> What about databank-disk?

[22:13:38] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] paroneayea: awesome

[22:13:49] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: honestly I forgot about that

[22:13:51] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I'll look into it though

[22:13:52] <e_s_p> OK

[22:13:55] <e_s_p> Cool

[22:14:06] <e_s_p> I think it's still the default backend!

[22:14:15] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] yep

[22:14:23] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] it is

[22:14:28] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I'll make sure it gets fixed :)

[22:14:35] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] so other stuff in code-land

[22:14:40] <e_s_p> OK!

[22:14:40] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] the Jade transition is basically complete

[22:14:45] <e_s_p> Nice!

[22:14:51] <e_s_p> That will be post-1.0 though, right?

[22:14:57] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] oh yeah

[22:14:59] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] definitely

[22:15:12] <e_s_p> Like... I guess it would be 2.x?

[22:15:15] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] that being said I've been running it in production for a couple weeks, just fixed a couple lingering bugs last night

[22:15:23] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: we could do 1.1

[22:15:24] <e_s_p> It's kind of a tough call whether the templates are part of the API or not

[22:15:34] <e_s_p> I'd like to stick to semver if possible

[22:15:41] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] definitely

[22:15:50] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I don't think they're exposed anywhere though

[22:16:00] <e_s_p> Yeah but people mess with them

[22:16:05] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] noted.

[22:16:20] <e_s_p> Anyway

[22:16:35] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] we can figure that out later

[22:16:46] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] in other news: the Express 3.x transition is going well too

[22:16:46] <e_s_p> Another option is supporting both

[22:16:53] <e_s_p> Oh great!

[22:17:05] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: not worth it. utml blocks Express 3.x work

[22:17:12] <e_s_p> What about 4.x?

[22:17:15] <e_s_p> Why stop at 3.x?

[22:17:24] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: that's the plan after 3.x is done

[22:17:34] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] which hasn't happened yet

[22:17:35] <e_s_p> 3.x is already deprecated though

[22:17:40] <e_s_p> OK then!

[22:17:54] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] currently the app starts without crashing and most things work. probably 95% of tests are passing

[22:18:03] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] there's still more work to do but we're really close

[22:18:07] <e_s_p> Wow

[22:18:10] <e_s_p> That's great news

[22:18:22] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] :)

[22:18:27] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I also started a change log

[22:18:30] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] CHANGELOG.md

[22:18:33] <e_s_p> Good idea!

[22:18:45] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] currently it just has the current release but I'm planning to go back through the history and add more

[22:19:02] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I think that's most of what's happened in the code

[22:19:09] <e_s_p> Is there a 1.0.x branch?

[22:19:14] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] master

[22:19:19] <e_s_p> Ah

[22:19:27] <e_s_p> Where's the newer stuff happening?

[22:19:33] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] feature branches

[22:19:42] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] utml-to-jade and express-3.x

[22:19:55] <e_s_p> Cool

[22:20:06] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] yep

[22:20:21] <e_s_p> So at release time, new 1.0.x branch gets created, and then merge the features into master once they pass tests?

[22:20:29] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] yep

[22:20:31] <e_s_p> +1

[22:20:35] <e_s_p> This is all great news

[22:20:36] <e_s_p> OK

[22:20:48] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: indeed! I'm excited

[22:20:53] <e_s_p> Anything else we need to talk about with code?

[22:20:55] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] one might almost say I'm... pumped

[22:20:59] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] not that I can think of

[22:21:24] <e_s_p> >:(

[22:21:32] <paroneayea> >:D

[22:21:36] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I've made that pun way too many times

[22:21:38] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] anyway :P

[22:21:46] <paroneayea> yay!

[22:21:48] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] let's move on

[22:21:53] <paroneayea> exciting stuff :)

[22:22:00] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Node adoption?

[22:22:03] <e_s_p> Let's see... next step is node adoption

[22:22:16] <e_s_p> Where this is is I still need to make an announcement

[22:22:31] <e_s_p> Which will be good because I am going broke paying for these servers

[22:22:46] <e_s_p> They're -10/month which doesn't seem like much until you're running 40 of them

[22:22:52] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] right

[22:23:03] <e_s_p> I will make an announcement before the next meeting

[22:23:08] <e_s_p> Hopefully we get that moving forward

[22:23:16] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] awesome!

[22:23:56] <e_s_p> OK, on to ActivityPub

[22:24:02] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] paroneayea?

[22:24:04] <e_s_p> paroneayea: what's up on that front?

[22:24:13] <paroneayea> okay! several updates

[22:24:40] <paroneayea> on the standard itself: we're going to be pushing for a new Working Draft at next meeting. There have been a lot of updates, and things are much cleaner

[22:24:47] <paroneayea> very shortly, I'll be merging some more improvements

[22:24:50] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] whoooooo!

[22:24:51] <paroneayea> here's the latest:

[22:25:03] <paroneayea> http://w3c-social.github.io/activitypub/

[22:25:23] <paroneayea> so I had the good fortune of rhiaro coming to visit Morgan and I in Madison for a few days

[22:25:37] <paroneayea> rhiaro is Amy Guy, also a W3C SocialWG participant

[22:25:54] <e_s_p> Oh nice!

[22:25:58] <paroneayea> one thing you may notice in the new spec updates:

[22:25:59] <e_s_p> She's great

[22:26:03] <paroneayea> yes indeed

[22:26:15] <paroneayea> client to server / server to server stuff is now much more clearly delineated

[22:26:18] <paroneayea> there are separate sections

[22:26:28] <paroneayea> describing side effects and intentions of each separately

[22:26:35] <paroneayea> but with clear references to each other where appropriate

[22:26:48] <paroneayea> I think in general the spec is also much easier to read

[22:27:13] <paroneayea> rhiaro has been doing her own ActivityPub implementation for her own website, and has given a fresh eye to a lot of things

[22:27:24] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] awesome! that's fantastic

[22:27:28] -*- rhiaro waves

[22:27:30] <paroneayea> one other change

[22:27:37] <xmpp-pump> ***strugee can't wait until we can try out ActivityPub

[22:27:47] <paroneayea> https://www.w3.org/TR/ldn/

[22:27:58] <paroneayea> Linked Data Notifications is now a spec on track in the group

[22:28:17] <paroneayea> in fact, ActivityPub federation / server to server stuff can be seen as a specialized supset of LDN

[22:28:24] <paroneayea> and in the document, we've now called that out

[22:28:25] <e_s_p> +1

[22:28:29] <e_s_p> Good

[22:28:29] <paroneayea> so, and e_s_p has not heard this yet

[22:28:39] <e_s_p> <drumroll>

[22:28:48] <paroneayea> but because of that, we're keeping ActivityPub as one document, relying on LDN to inform some things for federation

[22:28:56] <e_s_p> Sweet

[22:28:59] <paroneayea> so both client to server and server to server have their own separate sections

[22:29:08] <e_s_p> So the idea of busting out the subscription stuff to another doc won't happen

[22:29:09] <paroneayea> but to keep from having implementers read through too many documents

[22:29:14] <paroneayea> they're all int hte same place

[22:29:14] <paroneayea> yes

[22:29:19] <e_s_p> +1

[22:29:20] <e_s_p> That's good

[22:29:24] <paroneayea> so now instead there's some of the heavy lifting done by LDN, but for the most part

[22:29:31] <paroneayea> you don't need to read LDN even that much to get a sense of it

[22:29:39] <paroneayea> because the AP document gives a general overview

[22:29:44] <paroneayea> I think it's the best of all worlds right now

[22:29:50] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] cool!

[22:30:06] <paroneayea> so! also, LDN and AP are both aiming to hit CR by the end of the W3C TPAC meeting

[22:30:15] <paroneayea> which is the big W3C technical conference

[22:30:31] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] \o/

[22:30:33] <paroneayea> rhiaro and I will both be there for it... I forget if e_s_p will make it yet or not

[22:30:34] <paroneayea> anyway

[22:30:36] <paroneayea> I think we're on track

[22:30:44] <e_s_p> Great

[22:30:45] <paroneayea> one more one more thing

[22:30:46] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] that's fantastic news!

[22:30:51] <e_s_p> I don't think I'll be there, but I need to check

[22:31:23] <paroneayea> iirc there's been issues in the past where sometimes if you post some stuff to your followers, and then someone replies to you, your followers might not see it

[22:31:37] <paroneayea> I'm about to pull in some stuff that I think will resolve this issue

[22:32:02] <paroneayea> I've done a prototype to make sure it works and doesn't result in crazy combinatorial explosions, and rhiaro and I spent a bucnh of time going over it

[22:32:05] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] ooo nice

[22:32:08] <paroneayea> but e_s_p that would be something good for us to talk about

[22:32:59] <paroneayea> the gist is: say evan posts a note like "This is a great party!" to: ["http://evan.example/followers"] which is evan's own followers feed

[22:33:02] <e_s_p> paroneayea: my idea on that

[22:33:05] <paroneayea> and I reply to Evan

[22:33:12] <e_s_p> Is that if A posts to followers

[22:33:18] <e_s_p> And B and C are followers

[22:33:19] <paroneayea> but keep evan's "http://evan.example/followers" in addressing

[22:33:21] <e_s_p> And C replies

[22:33:34] <e_s_p> ...A would re-share to followers

[22:33:40] <paroneayea> evan's server should forward to his followers, seeing that I sent a message inReplyTo his message

[22:33:45] <e_s_p> Right

[22:33:49] <e_s_p> Agreed

[22:33:49] <paroneayea> but referencing a collection I don't have access to

[22:34:01] <paroneayea> e_s_p: sounds like we're already in synchronization :)

[22:34:22] <e_s_p> I think the only thing would be that I think it should be a new activity

[22:34:47] <paroneayea> e_s_p: I'm not sure I agree, I think forwarding would be fine, but, we can talk about that :)

[22:34:55] <paroneayea> how about we sync up on that later

[22:35:18] <paroneayea> anyway, even with that potential nit, it sounds like e_s_p mostly agrees with what we wrote anyway. Whew!

[22:35:24] <e_s_p> Great!

[22:35:33] <paroneayea> so, lots of good stuff

[22:35:36] <paroneayea> also

[22:35:40] <e_s_p> OK

[22:35:41] <paroneayea> I've been pushing hard on implementation

[22:35:48] <e_s_p> Great

[22:36:09] <paroneayea> I have a non-published implementation Pydraulics, but my main implementation is

[22:36:14] <e_s_p> I think at least pump.io checks to see that the actor matches whoever it's receiving from

[22:36:16] <paroneayea> Pubstrate https://github.com/cwebber/pubstrate

[22:36:30] <paroneayea> Pubstrate is written in Guile because it's fun for me to hack on

[22:36:34] <paroneayea> anyway, it's coming together

[22:36:40] <paroneayea> I hope to have a public demo shortly

[22:36:44] <e_s_p> Great!

[22:36:49] <e_s_p> OK, let's wrap up

[22:36:51] <paroneayea> http://dustycloud.org/tmp/pubstrate_2016-08-17.png

[22:36:52] <paroneayea> screenie

[22:36:55] <e_s_p> I think we're almost done

[22:36:57] <paroneayea> that's about it for that anyway

[22:37:00] <paroneayea> yes

[22:37:01] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] wait

[22:37:06] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I've got a couple more things

[22:37:09] <e_s_p> Wow

[22:37:11] <e_s_p> OK

[22:37:26] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] first the boring one

[22:37:32] <e_s_p> Oh

[22:37:39] <e_s_p> Wait, are these on the agenda?

[22:37:41] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: CLAHub needs to be updated with DCO

[22:37:42] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] yep

[22:37:44] <e_s_p> Let's do them in order

[22:38:11] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] ok

[22:38:14] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] fair enough

[22:38:26] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] so the first thing is that I designed some t-shirts to celebrate the 1.0.0 release

[22:38:38] <e_s_p> Yay!

[22:38:40] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] https://strugee.net/blog/2016/08/pump.io-call-for-testers-call-for-feedback

[22:38:59] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] there are a bunch of different designs and we should find a way to vote on which one we like best

[22:39:16] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I can create a poll and post it from the community account?

[22:39:58] <e_s_p> Good idea!

[22:40:21] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] awesome

[22:40:30] <e_s_p> So, I'm in CLAHub right now

[22:40:51] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] ok

[22:41:02] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I think the text just needs to be changed

[22:41:47] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] to https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING

[22:42:09] <e_s_p> OK, I think I got it

[22:42:21] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I'll test

[22:43:22] <e_s_p> Hold on

[22:43:25] <e_s_p> It's just going right now

[22:43:39] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I just checked, it's there

[22:43:47] <xmpp-pump> ***strugee signs the CLA

[22:44:12] <e_s_p> Hooray

[22:44:37] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] e_s_p: thanks!

[22:44:39] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] That's it for me

[22:44:43] <e_s_p> I had to wipe all the old signatures for the old CLA though

[22:44:53] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] OK

[22:44:56] <e_s_p> So now it's like <shrug>

[22:45:01] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] I guess that makes sense

[22:45:33] <e_s_p> OK, all good?

[22:45:47] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Yep! All my PRs are green now :P

[22:45:53] <e_s_p> Hooray

[22:45:58] <xmpp-pump> [strugee] Do we have anything else to discuss?

[22:46:07] <e_s_p> No, that's everything on the agenda

[22:46:23] <e_s_p> pumabot: end meeting

[22:46:23] <pumabot> Thank you all for attending! Logs will be posted on the wiki shortly.

[22:46:23] <pumabot> See you next month!

[22:46:23] <pumabot> #############################################################

[22:46:23] <pumabot> END LOG

[22:46:23] <pumabot> #############################################################