Tabs & tab management

[iamnbutler]

I'd love to start a discussion on tab management.

• Who does this well?
• How should we deal with large amounts of tabs?
• Have you encountered any tab overflow experiences that are interesting or feel really good?
  • Example: Chrome's shrinking tabs, tab overflow dropdowns...
• How do you work with tabs? Do you try to close them as you go? Navigate with cmd+p?
• Are ephemeral tabs useful? (VSCode does this if you single click an item in the file tree for reference.)

Edit: Thanks for all the discussion y'all. I post these to let feedback accumulate so we can review them when we update these things. If they ever feel like nothing is happening based on all the feedback, it is likely we just haven't sequenced an update of that part of the editor. Reading through this one now 🙂

[JosephTLyons]

Tabs are a weird thing. They are essential, but I've never found any one system that is great. That being said, I have no idea what would make them any better.

Some inspiration - Jetbrains' IDEs have a bunch of ways to tweak tab behavior

The items under "Closing Policy" are basically a more advancec Zen Tabs mode. I'm not sure everyone likes that sort of thing; it doesn't really solve what to do if the setting is disabled.

Jetbrain's also allows of the tab bar to be placed vertically, which lets you view a lot more at once, since the amount that fits on the screen isn't determined by the amount of text, but the static height of the tab button itself. Not everyone's cup of tea, just a different way to handle things.

[iamnbutler]

Thanks! Some of these settings are really interesting.

[rkusa]

Propably controversial, but I personally like tabs to be reserved for projects (or repositories) and don't use them for files. I have this e.g. in VSCode and Sublime on macOS, where the native macOS tabs are used for projects/repos opened, and the VSCode/Sublime built-in tabs for files (doesn't work that way on Windows though).

If tabs are project/repository only, I never end up with too many open tabs in parallel. So tab management isn't an issue in this case.

For files, I consider the following good alternatives for tabs:
a) a vertical list of active files above the file-tree (example)
b) CTRL+P and a command similar to CTRL+P that only lists/searches active files
c) two variants of CTRL+I / CTRL-O (navigate the history where the cursor has been): one to navigate the jump points in the current file; and another one to jump back and forth between the file history (and in each file to the last jump point in that file)

I still use tabs in Sublime and VSCode, mostly because (c) is lacking in both. I usually just close everything and start fresh when I start work on a new feature/bug - so not really a good workflow.

I've disabled ephemeral tabs as I never was able to get used to them and always found it confusing when the file was gone after navigation away.

[iamnbutler]

I think we will have some sort of project switcher, not sure if it will take the form of tabs or something else.

a) Would you always want this to be tied to the file tree (not for example, it's own panel)?
b) We have cmd + P, the second one is interesting. New keybinds are hard, but could be something like cmd+opt+p
c) We have history, but I think it combines these two things. Is having these two navigation types separate something you feel like you need?

[JosephTLyons]

... We have cmd + P, the second one is interesting.

Both VS Code and Sublime Text show the open files directly in the normal file browser, sorted to the top of the list.

[diktomat]

I think we will have some sort of project switcher, not sure if it will take the form of tabs or something else.

I'd like a project switcher to auto-discover projects by having it look for git repos inside a directory. Like, I have ~/dev set as project containing root, and every subdirectory containing a git (or hg/bzr/...) repo automatically is picked up by the project switcher.

[JosephTLyons]

a) a vertical list of active files above the file-tree (example)

I do like the vertical list of active files too. What editor are you showing here?

[jjlorenzo]

I do like the vertical list of active files too. What editor are you showing here?

https://chocolatapp.com/ (I think is discontinued)

[TerminalFi]

Sublime also has this capability and I use it frequently

[exalted]

Man! Tabs, from a UX/UI standpoint, are tricky!

If you think about it, for dominant keyboard usage (see "code editors"), they don't add much value IMO, other than telling you "these are some of the files you've opened recently". At least in my personal usage, I'd navigate through code/files by other means anyway (e.e., "go to definition", Ctrl-tab'ing, etc.)

There is a case however that makes tabs somewhat useful IMO, however: Visual hints that show whether a file contains changes that need to be saved. Perhaps vertical space taken by tabs might be better used by integrating more such hints.

On the other hand, for dominantly mouse users, I guess tabs may sense as a means to faster access to… recently opened files. 😉

Addressing some of @iamnbutler 's specific questions below:

How do you work with tabs? Do you try to close them as you go? Navigate with cmd+p?

Often times I feel the urge to close all open tabs with: Cmd-Alt-w (will close all but the current tab) + Cmd-w (will close the current tab). (Why don't I have a shortcut to close'em all in one go? I don't have a good answer to that! 😅 )

Are ephemeral tabs useful? (VSCode does this if you single-click an item in the file tree for reference.)

Absolutely! I mean in my ideal world that feature shouldn't even exist as it wouldn't be needed in the first place, but as I tried to hint at it above somewhat, I hardly ever reach out to (or interact with) my [open] tabs via a mouse, so they're 99% worthless to me (except for the visual hints they may provide). If any files that I "peek into" were to open in a new tab, I'd go crazy, I think.

So to recap, I guess my 2c about tabs is this: Does Zed want to provide a file-centric editor UX or is it more about the entire codebase regardless of how it's split across the filesystem. If you think about it, the editable multi-file buffer view which lets you see errors, search results, etc. does, in my mind, crosses a peculiar line where it isn't as important as where a given piece of code is saved. From that perspective, I think in the long term Zed could take some more bold decisions around what to do about tabs, more than "merely" showing recently opened files.

I saw an "HTML/CSS editor" which I cannot recall its name on top of my head (https://brackets.io) that showed relevant CSS class definitions within the HTML. So, rather than opening the CSS file that contained, say a .foo class, on a separate tab, it would instead show you the relevant portion of the *.css file containing .foo right below the HTML code. I thought that was neat! When I am talking about "bold decisions", that's what I am thinking in terms of "re-thinking" tabs, et al. Imagine "peeking into" (and being able to edit) functions from the calling point, without ever leaving the "file" you're currently working in.

(I guess it would be only fair to make a similar discussion also for the tree viewer, but I will leave that for another day 😄 )

✌️

[iamnbutler]

Inline editors are very interesting. We have some ideas around ephemeral views into parts of files that we are kicking around right now... It would be interesting to look at all the different ways this has been done.

[iamnbutler]

Would you disable tabs if you had the option? The state we show in the tab today could easily move down to the breadcrumb.

If any files that I "peek into" were to open in a new tab, I'd go crazy, I think.

I think Zed works this way today right? I don't think that is desirable, but I think it does work this way right now.

[exalted]

Would you disable tabs if you had the option? The state we show in the tab today could easily move down to the breadcrumb.

Yes, I think for the most part I'd disable tabs, but at the same time, I wouldn't like to lose some hints about recent files that I made some changes.

If any files that I "peek into" were to open in a new tab, I'd go crazy, I think.

I think Zed works this way today right? I don't think that is desirable, but I think it does work this way right now.

Any file you'll click on the tree view (left panel) will open that file in a new tab, regardless if it was an accidental click, or did you actually mean to open that file.

[lougreenwood]

If you think about it, for dominant keyboard usage (see "code editors"), they don't add much value IMO, other than telling you "these are some of the files you've opened recently". At least in my personal usage, I'd navigate through code/files by other means anyway (e.e., "go to definition", Ctrl-tab'ing, etc.)

I disagree, I use tabs extensively in vim. Specifically I use tabs to group related files - I'm a frontend developer and the framework which I use means that there are multiple files for a given "entity", for example, given a web page URL (aka a route), I have the following files:

• route.ts
• controller.ts
• template.hbs
• route-acceptance-test.js
• route-page-object.js

When I'm working on a feature, I like to have a tab per "entity", I will use a tool like telescope-alternate (vim) or related files hopper (vscode) to allow me to open all of the sibling files when I'm viewing one of these files, I'll then open them in splits in that tab (and use a "split auto-collapse accordion thingy" addon, to allow the main file to have focus and the other splits take up minimum space, but maintain a consistent order on screen).

Effectively I use tabs as something similar to folder organisation for disparate files which are related, but scattered amongst the file system.

I also make extensive use of tabdrop in vim so that when I attempt to open a file (go to definition etc) when I'm not viewing the destiniation file (but it is already open in some other tab), then vim will jump to the target tab and buffer - avoiding having the same file open in many "buffers" across many tabs.

So for me, I want tabs to allow multiple buffers (the vim way), not tabs to be separate buffers (the vscode way).

[aexvir]

How do you work with tabs? Navigate with cmd+p?

tabs for me are definitely a nuisance
if I want a list of files I already have the file explorer, and that should already show it's state (new, updated, etc)
for switching between buffers I much prefer the command palette experience, (cmd+p), where I can search for exactly the file I need instead of glancing through the tab bar and clicking on a small box

I'd much rather have those few px of vertical space used for code than for a tab bar that I'll never use 😅

Do you try to close them as you go?

not really, I never worry about how many buffers I have opened
as long as the "file switcher" or whatever is called the cmd+p palette is able to sort the files by how recently I opened them that's good for me

personally I love the cmd+p+p shortcut of vscode where I can jump back and forth between two files
oh, and also please allow opening files on a split when inputting cmd+enter or shift+enter from the file switcher

Are ephemeral tabs useful? (VSCode does this if you single click an item in the file tree for reference.)

nope, it's one of the most annoying features I've ever experienced 😅
luckily I can just turn it off

Would you disable tabs if you had the option?

yes, please 😅

[iamnbutler]

oh, and also please allow opening files on a split when inputting cmd+enter or shift+enter from the file switcher

Open an issue for this if one doesn't exist already!

Thanks for your thoughts!

[JosephTLyons]

oh, and also please allow opening files on a split when inputting cmd+enter or shift+enter from the file switcher

• https://github.com/zed-industries/feedback/issues/54

[aexvir]

oh, nice 🙂 thanks joseph!

[mateoroldos]

I came into this discussion and was going to comment exactly the same thing.
The best tabs management solution is no tabs 🧘‍♂️

But to work without tabs, sorting the file switcher by last opened is a must.

[MultisampledNight]

(moved from Discord) Haven't used Zed even once yet, but dropping my thoughts after reading through the stuff in there:

• I'm using NeoVim, and in general I try to avoid tabs as much as possible. If I already have a file opened, I want to see it in parallel to the current one, if not, I can usually access it through looking in the file hierarchy. And in that file hierarchy (which is nnn) tabs are very useful, but they're merely a replacement of "bookmarks" of important folders.
• Large amounts of tabs could be handled by making tabs more of a "recently-used" view instead, which could be searched for both filename and critical file structures/contents, and show where the cursor was before leaving the file. Then opening a "tab" would require at least 4 actions assuming a mouse, searching for the "tab" button, clicking it, searching for interesting content + scrolling, clicking again, but that way the editor wouldn't run out of horizontal space.
• The only real case I work with tabs is more in the browser domain, and there I primarily move with Alt + tab number, close with Ctrl + W and open new tabs with Ctrl + T, barely using the mouse there

[widersky]

Who does this well?

It seems to me that VSCode does it quite well, but not perfectly.

How should we deal with large amounts of tabs?

In my opinion, the cards should "sway" to the width of the file name by default. As a programmer, I want to see where I have an open file, the names can not be hidden from me. For the same reason, I think that when there is no place in the card bar, the cards should be displayed in several rows.

Have you encountered any tab overflow experiences that are interesting or feel really good?
Example: Chrome's shrinking tabs, tab overflow dropdowns...

Squeezing cards is ok, but as I wrote above - file names should not hide.

How do you work with tabs? Do you try to close them as you go? Navigate with cmd+p?

I try to close cards that I haven't used in a long time on an ongoing basis.

Are ephemeral tabs useful? (VSCode does this if you single click an item in the file tree for reference.)

Previewing the file after a single click is very helpful.

[exalted]

I don't necessarily need/want this; however, how about closing open tabs after a certain amount of time if they weren't modified/opened?

[widersky]

This could be distracting when the tabs close during our work.

[iamnbutler]

I'd love an option for stale tabs to dismiss assuming we could do this in a way that would ensure your current tab never shifts.

[photex]

Tabs take up a lot of visual space and are distracting to me. I turn off tabs on all my editors. (exception being Xcode and Visual Studio since I don't think I can turn them off there).

I don't think tabs have ever helped me much. I realized this when I spent a lot of time with Emacs (with the projectile and helm plugins). Being able to bring up a list of "open buffers" just as easily as bringing up a list of all project files, is fundamentally the thing I need instead of tabs.

What's worse for me as well are how Xcode and Visual Studio have "preview tabs". If I'm debugging or trying to understand a very large project, I'll be hopping all over the place. But they'll happily just close files I've visited which completely interrupts the flow of what I'm doing.

At $dayjob I'm working in a 6M line C++ codebase. I need fluent movement through the code more than I need tabs. Bookmarks, open buffer list, etc.

[LeakyBucket]

I will say one thing that I've often found myself wanting to do is group a set of buffers/tabs together so I can easily switch focus between related sets in my visible panes. I will often find that I want to look at a template and the controller/handler code for it along with a model or similar as a set, and in some cases switch between two different representations/clusters of those things to compare or just look at histories as a set too.

[jamie]

The best UX I've ever had for dealing with open files came via a jEdit plugin, which would render a tree view filtered to just the open files (and then I'd hide the tab bar). Combined with dynamically collapsing the directory tree where possible (ie, if you've only got one file open foo/bar/baz.txt, there's a directory entry for foo/bar), this adds organization to my "working state" of relevant files for whatever feature I'm working at, without having to deal with horizontal scrolling 10 files when my editor window can only show 4 at a time. Given that, Cmd+P, search in project, and some basic jump-to-definition and jump-to-test-file functionality, I wouldn't actually need the file listing all too often (maybe browsing a list of models or something for a thing whose name I forget?).

I recently rediscovered this kicking the tires in RubyMine (just change the Project Files to Open Files in the dropdown top left and tweak a few settings to keep all folders expanded by default), it looks like this and is glorious:

[0x2CA]

I think vim's design is pretty good, tabs windows buffers

[0x2CA]

We need https://github.com/akinsho/bufferline.nvim

[synecdokey]

The only option I truly desire with tabs is to be able to hide them. Vertical space is at a premium, I navigate with the fuzzy finder, and I gather most of my context via splits, so tabs just add noise. They should probably do more than being able to be hidden, but I would be ill-placed to talk about it. 😞

[Joxter]

Hi, I'm a experienced WebStorm user. I'm looking for an alternative as my main code editor and I'm trying Zed right now.

My best idea last year for tabs was hiding tabs at all. Most of the time I need: search (shift-shift), "Go to defenition"/"Find usages", recent files/places. And I don't mess with tabs any more.

Even project files (list of all files) is hidden most of the time.

[CurbaiCode]

• How should we deal with large amounts of tabs?
• Have you encountered any tab overflow experiences that are interesting or feel really good?

Answering both, I know Vivaldi has a lot tab customization options. Though I'm not sure how it could/should be used for file navigation, I like the idea of grouping tabs together for large amounts of tabs. Also, having them in a sidebar (maybe above the project panel like in VSCode #5240), and the option for using breadcrumbs instead (like iamnbutler said).

• How do you work with tabs? Do you try to close them as you go? Navigate with cmd+p?
• Are ephemeral tabs useful? (VSCode does this if you single click an item in the file tree for reference.)

Usually, I only keep the ones I am currently working in or hopping back-and-forth from open, closing them with the mouse (the close button could be a little bigger though). Sometimes I might leave one or two open for reference though, so I don't have to use the project panel and make ephemeral tabs.

Lastly, I don't remember who, but someone jvanmourik proposed the idea of combining the tab bar and the title bar #5066, which is kind of like Safari's compact tab layout which I am a fan of.

[e1turin]

I like vim way with list of active buffers. And I like more the evolution of this idea in Neovim's plugin Telescope with its ability to show search through a list of buffers (built-in vim picker for buffer list) and preview their contents. So I do not need any tabs and just work with opened files. This way gives the ability to show additional information about a buffer, such as a git status and previous buffer, and I've created a keyboard shortcut for it ― hit space twice ― really convenient.

It's matter to say that Telescope gives huge ability for customization and integration with different subsystems, e.g. file system manipulations, git, grep, a search for editor settings, linter issues, file-bookmarks and so on.

But I see that such behavior is not intuitive for beginners, and maybe it's good idea to place such buffer list not in popup but sidebar so it can be used without keyboard shortcut.

Moreover, I use my web-browser sidebar for tab tree (Sidebery extension) as it is more convenient to see a hierarchy and increase amount of displayed tabs.

I hope these ideas will lead you to the most orthogonal solution to the tab navigation problem. ☕

[kenny1G]

Agree with this!
The main reason I still use neovim over zed right now, is the fact that panes get their own tabs/buffers.

A bufferline-esque feature could be good for beginners where the list of active buffers is shown as tabs and clicking on one only updates the active pane

[olevekavitocz]

Please make it possible to disable tabs completely. I use inteliJs products - phpstrom, and I completely get by with search, split view and last opened files. The whole use of tabs makes me want to work with the mouse, which I try to avoid :-)

[illustrofia]

I sometimes work with multiple tabs open and I love the ability to switch to the last used tab (how VSCode does it).

[liam-macann]

Coming from Sublime, I love being able to trigger split view with modifier keys. Just like in a list of files, you can open consecutive tabs with shift-click and select specific tabs with cmd-click. Works super well with the list of active files in the side bar, as well.

[piotrkowalczuk]

I would love to see the ability to turn off tabs completely.

[abejfehr]

Just curious: what would happen in that case if you selected a different file than the one you were on?

What if you had unsaved changes?

[piotrkowalczuk]

Currently, I use this setup in Goland (IntelliJ). Goland autosaves frequently and keeps local history. So, moving between files is just replacing what's being shown. Navigating using cmd+[ or cmd+] naturally replaces what's rendered the same way as choosing a file from the project tree.

Tabs settings:

Autosave settings:

[jerrygreen]

Cycle though last used tabs, instead of just visual order, - is really important to me.
Isn't it possible yet? I couldn't find such a keymap setting.

[alygin]

It's implemented as the Tab Switcher feature. Will be released in a couple of weeks.

[sommerper]

I would like to see an option to move tabs.
Something like:

"alt-i": "pane::GoBack",
"alt-n": "pane::GoForward",
"alt-shift-n": "pane::MoveBack",
"alt-shift-i": "pane::MoveForward"

[jerrygreen]

Moving tabs with a hotkey is one of the first things I found aren't accessible in Zed.

I'm so used to Ctrl-Shift-PgUp and Crtl-Shift-PgDown in browsers when using tabs.

[omid]

Regarding the vertical tabs, I'm just playing around with the source code to get more familiar with it.
It's what I have so far, but I'm not sure if the zed devs will accept the changes or not, or how generally the process (I've read the CONTRIBUTING file) works? It's not a tiny change, it's also not a big one!

So far, it's not resizable, and it's just top or right (and none, to remove one config?).
It's not a pane, it's exactly the same tab_bar we have on top.

Ref: #4331 (and a bit #5240)

PS: the code is not even close to ready to be a PR.

[exalted]

@omid Hey, great stuff! Would you mind creating a separate issue (or PR) to discuss specifics of the changes in there please? You can mention this discussione from there, to "tie" the contexts together. Thanks!

[omid]

@exalted thanks, to avoid duplications, can i go with #4331?

[exalted]

No strong opinion on my end. I trust your decision! :high-five:

[psiho]

My 2c, and how I do it in Nvim:

• tabs are minimal (visually), and all splits share the same tab bar. Mostly I use them to arrange files in vertical splits
• I use Telescope to quickly search/preview/switch-to open tabs (buffers), with shortcut bb
• bp - go back to last active tab in tab history (bn - go next)
• bc - close tab
• bo - close al tabs and splits except active one