Pressing super in full screen mode produces a dummy panel

[ComposerShirley]

The intelligent auto-hide panel feature in Cinnamon is great, definitely superior to Win. The only issue I see is that if you press 'super' to access the panel/menu (I do this often in full screen mode while teaching) you can select items from the menu, but not from the panel. I'm guessing this is just a little oversight.

EDIT: I updated the title after discovering this issue was universal and unrelated to the intelligent auto-hide panel feature. Original title: Pressing super with "intelligent auto-hide panel" should produce a useable panel

[LincolnFarrell]

Came here to make a post discussing this, but I guess you've already done that. Always felt like a bug to me not being able switch tabs like that, so I hope this feature is implemented.

[cplittlfield]

The menu and the panel are separate applets. Activating the menu with the Super key does not display the panel as well, unless you have that setting enabled in the system settings (a feature that I understand was added to satisfy Windows users who just couldn't cope).

In general, however, the point of hitting Super is to open and use the menu, and not to use the panel. If I want to see the panel, it's because I want to click on something, so why not open the panel with the mouse? (I could support the addition of a shortcut to open the panel application with a keystroke combination, but honestly, what would be the point? We'd still need to use the mouse in any case.)

The logic of the Windows interface is considerably muddled at this point. After a year and a half of using Linux Mint, I find its logic refreshingly clear and easy to grasp. If I wanted to continue operating exactly the way Windows does, I'd have stayed with Windows.

[ComposerShirley]

Windows does not have an intelligent auto-hide panel (toolbar) feature like Cinnamon. This is one of many areas where Linux Mint is superior. I understand that the menu and panel are two separate applets, as you say, however when using the intelligent auto-hide panel feature, pressing the super key does indeed bring up both the menu and the panel (which is logical). Since it brings up both, it would only be logical to be able to interact with both.

When running programs in full screen mode the panel isn't accessible with the mouse (with intelligent auto-hide panel enabled). And that is as it should be. So ideally, accessing the panel with the super key would allow one to not only see it, but also use it, without having to exit full-screen mode.

If you dislike Cinnamon's unique intelligent auto-hide panel feature, that's a different topic.

[cplittlfield]

That's very interesting, because on my system, even with a maximized app on the monitor where the panel is, I can cause the panel to be displayed by bringing the cursor to the edge of the screen. This is true with either "auto hide" or "intelligently hide" selected. So I'm not sure what is going on with your system.

Also, when you press the Super key, the panel is displayed only if the Menu applet is configured to display the panel (Menu > Panel > Force the panel to be visible when opening the menu > On). Otherwise, it does not display the panel.

I would, as previously mentioned, support adding the ability to display the panel using a keyboard shortcut, even though I don't need it on my system.

[ComposerShirley]

Not when an app is maximized, but when it's in full screen mode (often F11). For example in Celluloid, Firefox, etc.

Also, when you press the Super key, the panel is displayed only if the Menu applet is configured to display the panel (Menu > Panel > Force the panel to be visible when opening the menu > On). Otherwise, it does not display the panel.

Sure, but I believe they are tethered by default. But either way it would be nice if the panel worked when displayed. Being able to assign a shortcut would be an improvement, but in this case it would be a work around to fixing what feels like a simple oversight.

[cplittlfield]

The are not "tethered," precisely. But it does seem as though what you are asking for is for the two separate applications to be integrated into one, not just a way to open the panel. Good luck.

[ComposerShirley]

Actually, I just tested it, the behavior is the same whether using intelligent auto-hide panel or the default, always show the panel. So, even in the default panel mode, if you are running a program in full screen mode, pressing 'super' brings up both the menu and the panel, but while you can interact with the menu, you can't interact with the panel.

[cplittlfield]

As mentioned, you should be able to get the panel to show itself by bringing the cursor to the edge of the screen where the panel is located. If that's not working for you, I can see why you would want some way to display the panel and work with it. But displaying the panel along with the menu is not the designed way to interact with the panel at present.

I'm simply suggesting that it might be more appealing to the devs to ask for a keyboard shortcut to activate the panel when it is hidden (there may even be one already, but I haven't found it). Such a shortcut might be easier to implement than trying to integrate the menu and panel applets.

[spamegg1]

I've seen many forum posts about this and I directed users over here.
Let me repeat my view on the Forums here in this discussion as well.

I've been using Cinnamon since before the "Force the Panel to be visible when opening Menu" option was added:

Now, this was done because many users requested it.
And these users were mostly newcomers from Windows.
They had ingrained habits where they pressed the "Windows key" to make their Panel visible.
They also had habits to use the Windows key as an "escape hatch from fullscreen".
This is especially true for gamers, who are used to "freely alt-tabbing in an out of fullscreen games" on Windows.
This was always a strange thing on Windows, that the Menu and the Panel were somehow forcefully "attached" to each other.
But long ingrained habits defeat logic and reason easily...

However I think Mint developers misunderstood the motivation behind the requests.
So, currently with this option enabled, opening the Menu forces the Panel to be visible, but that's it.
That's not the reason users asked for it.
Adding to this, the fact that many games, when run on Linux, do not have the same "alt-tabbing behavior" (sometimes they have window focus issues due to Wine + how they are coded to run on Windows), and users were frustrated.

So I think that Cinnamon should either:

go all the way and fully embrace the Windows behavior (where Panel + Menu are "merged" and act as one, and it acts as a "fullscreen escape hatch"),

or revert back to the old behavior and remove the currently available (and arguably useless) option.

[billyswong]

@cplittlfield
Fullscreen mode hides not only the border of the window itself. It also instructs the window manager to put the window in front of and cover the panel(s) so that the panel(s) won't distract audience who are not supposed to know or care offtopic information such as which OS version and theme the presenter is using in the computer.

Fullscreen mode is more important for those who do public/group presentation or film playing, than those who play games personally. One can get used to the panel(s) of one's own computer and not be distracted by them.

Also, due to the long existence of super key as fullscreen mode escape without telling the application to exit fullscreen mode, software applications generally don't provide a built-in function for presenters to escape fullscreen mode yet not expose all the other content behind the scene of their presentations, as that would be reinvent the wheel.

[cplittlfield]

I don't use full-screen mode for much of anything, so thank you both for the discussion of the need for it.

I keep my panel auto-hidden and have never needed to use it, on those rare occasions when I have put an application into full-screen mode, so I was not aware that the panel is inaccessible in that mode. Another reason I never noticed that the panel might not be accessible is that I have two monitors, and if an app is in full-screen mode on monitor 2, the panel is still available on monitor 1.

But I also have to confess that I am having trouble imagining circumstances in which it might be necessary to see either the panel or the menu while showing a video to students. Isn't that disruptive, not to mention very distracting to the students? On the other hand, I can easily see myself fiddling with the keyboard or mouse during a video and displaying the menu or panel completely by accident, so in my case, the current behavior of full-screen mode is probably a good thing, lol! 😄

[ComposerShirley]

I don't play films for students, but I'll give you an example of something I do while teaching that's been a bit frustrating:

I teach music, so I run MuseScore quite a bit in full-screen mode so that, 1) I can use every pixel of screen real estate space to make the music as large as possible ao the kids can read it, and, 2) It's critical that I remove everything on the screen except the music as a class of kids would be completely distracted by anything extra at all.

But I'm not just using MuseScore. I often need to periodically display a PDF or two (again maximizing space/minimizing distractions), and often I need to switch over to a program to playback MP3s or MIDI recordings. Having to exit/reenter full-screen in order to switch programs adds quite a few steps, can mess up formatting, and adds distractions/unprofessionalism.

[cplittlfield]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm so used to switching with Alt-Tab that I generally don't even think of using the panel for that. Sorry for the lack of imagination on my part. 😺

[ComposerShirley]

Yes, alt-tab is definitely a good option in many cases (speaking of Windows-isms!). Of course sometimes I'll want to load a program that isn't already running, with a click on a panel icon. But thanks for the reminder, making alt-tab more of a habit will help.