Do not require restarting the PC after installing with MSI installer #3551
Comments
allexzander
added
the
enhancement
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really kill explorer.exe 😿 |
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Now Nextcloud doesn't even ask if you want to restart, it just does forcefully. |
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Yep, can confirm that when upgrading through winget, or the "we need to update" prompt, a restart is unceremoniously triggered without ANY warning. This is very user hostile - giving us no warning is completely unacceptable. Please consider:
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@eibex @nroach44 Nothing's been changed in terms of installation for a while. How do you trigger the installer? Via command line? Could you provide more info on how to reproduce this? Just double-checked after reading this, and the prompt is still there in 3.5.0... |
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I am on Windows 10 and update by clicking the button on the settings page of Nextcloud. I have never used the command line/powershell to update the program. The pop-up started appearing after v3/v3.1 as far as I can remember. |
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@allexzander The process msiexec.exe has initiated the restart of computer $COMPUTER on behalf of user NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM for the following reason: No title for this reason could be found |
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One thing to note is that at no point was I prompted for the reboot, so this may only happen on "silent" upgrades. |
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Logs: Source: RestartManager Source: RestartManager Source: MsiInstaller Source: MsiInstaller |
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@allexzander I should have mentioned that specifically for 3.4.4 to 3.5.0 I manually started the MSI file (as I outlined in #4506) and the pop-up still appeared. I cannot now remember whether the computer restarted by itself even if I pressed "No", but I believe it did as mentioned in a few other bug threads. |
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For 3.5.1 no pop-up appeared, but the computer rebooted without asking for anything |
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@eibex @nroach44 Indeed, the issue is annoying and is quick to fix. It's done now in #4566, however, expect the force reboot to be removed when updating from the next patch 3.5.2 to the subsequent 3.5.3 a, the parameter that prevents force reboot is added into an MSI and is also added into a calling code of the running desktop client. |
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@allexzander Okay, thanks for your explanation 🙂 So, it was expected that today, when I updated 3.5.1 to 3.5.2, the forced reboot happend once again? But next, when the update 3.5.3 gets released, it should not happen again? |
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Forced reboot happened while upgrading from 3.5.2 to 3.5.3 |
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Can confirm: |
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Just my two cents, but you should really, really consider breaking procedure and implement it as emergency fix. It doesn't look like a huge issue from a technical POV but if I were your service manager I'd probably categorize it as critical because behavior like that has the potential to seriously hurt Nextcloud as a brand. Especially when users (who typically don't browse incident reports) are forced to experience it over and over again. |
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I totally agree. There is >zero< justification doing that for something like Nextcloud. No one expects that. |
And rightfully so. Just that it is not even your fault, but Nextcloud's. I am seriously puzzled by who decided that a forced reboot is a good idea for a software that they want to be used in production environments. We might simply be annoyed, but deal with it. People who are not as tech-savvy and just want to work associate Nextcloud with trouble by now as this has been happening for several updates. Regaining trust is tough... An emergeny fix would be a first step. |
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Still see the "issue" on a machine on Windows 10 Pro, NC Client 3.6.2->3.6.4 it asked to restart explorer.exe and after the installation it even asked to reboot the system (or dalay to do it later). I think it said it was a MSI-Install-Package... I manage to update certain things like sync clients when I reboot anyway. |
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Updated to Version 3.9.0. I had to reboot PC, that is I had to close all my open applications and stop what I was doing. Can you finally stop this aggressive behavior of Nextcloud updates or I have to dump it? Megasync or Onedrive will suffice for me. I do not necessarily need to use storage on my own server any longer. Thank you. |
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yup. it is absolutely beyond me why nextcloud still prompts for reboots. 100% the biggest annoyance right now. |
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Not a nextcloud dev, but I think I can explain this. Under certain circumstances the shell overlays (the little green checkboxes) that are displayed on the file icons will not refresh properly until you reboot. Just select "reboot later" and it's always worked for me. IIRC this is a M$ thing that has been a loooooong standing issue (so long that guaranteed it'll never change). |
It's NOT the same bug. I just tried it. It asked "do you want to reboot? Yes/No", and it's possible to click No if you don't want it. The original bug instead was "forced reboot without even a warning to the user" |
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OK, thanks. |
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Anyone think this is worth another issue/investigation into? I thought the issue just boils down to restarting the shell (kind of a hack?) I think I've seen installers do this as efficiently as possible by offering to kill |
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It already asks to kill explorer.exe and if you deny it suggests a reboot edit: yesterday on a windows 11 pc it did that, today on another windows 10 pc, it did not prompt to restart explorer, just to reboot |
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Wrong. Even with explorer restart it does suggest the reboot. At least that should be fixed. |
It suggests and asks for a reboot, which can be conveniently denied by the user. This issue is not related, as it was about a forced reboot without a confirmation or even a warning, at the time it just rebooted. |
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It should not be doing that nonetheless. I think what people obviously do not wish to understand is that this is a HUGE irritation for the average user. It is affecting nextcloud in ways Devs do not seem to want to understand. I think the fundamental problem is that this behavior overall has to end, as I thionk even relaunching explorer is a bad solution. My little self hosted home setup does not matter, but I have experience with on-prem hosted nextcloud installs for hundreds of people and this update process is the NUMBER ONE problem people have with nexctloud. This imho needs attention before almost anything else when it comes to the windows client. |
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I think what some people may miss understanding is the edge cases that
utterly brutalise workflows.
For example I got involved in this issue when I had a text file open
that I was drafting a long email in. You could have anything open
though; a web form with medical details you're filling out, your tax
return in Excel that you've not yet saved, etc.
BUT, then horror struck. I started the update, went back to my document
and was typing. The 'restart' dialog popped up at the end of the install
and I think the default button must have been 'OK' because I hit
spacebar to enter a space in my document RIGHT as that dialog came up,
and boom - everything closed and my computer restarted. An hour or so
work lost.
I was furious and nearly put my computer into the wall. Then the lovely
"Installing Windows Updates" popped up, so I left the house before
burning it down.
Since then, I no longer use the Nextcloud client. I have recently tried
reinstalling it, but it is so utterly bug riddled that I uninstalled it
within a few minutes, and for months now I only use the web interface
and use OneDrive for my file sync instead.
Hopefully that use case and horror story gives you some idea. Could be
worse; Teams call with the CEO, typing notes as you chat, and the
'space' hits reboot cutting the call off and he cannot get back to you
for an hour.
…-Platima
------ Original Message ------
From "Markus Krause" ***@***.***>
To "nextcloud/desktop" ***@***.***>
Cc "platima" ***@***.***>; "Comment"
***@***.***>
Date 15/06/2023 17:53:35
Subject Re: [nextcloud/desktop] Do not require restarting the PC after
installing with MSI installer (#3551)
It should not be doing that nonetheless.
I think what people obviously do not wish to understand is that this is
a HUGE irritation for the average user.
It is affecting nextcloud in ways Devs do not seem to want to
understand.
To me it is merely an annoyance and chance for an inconvenient misclick.
I think the fundamental problem is that this behavior overall has to
end, as I thionk even relaunching explorer is a bad solution.
If nextcloud is to be the european counterpart to google drive, iCloud
and Dropbox, (which I think is maissively and critically important) it
has to strive for the same convenience and user experience.
My little self hosted home setup does not matter, but I have experience
with on-prem hosted nextcloud installs for hundreds of people and this
update process is the NUMBER ONE problem people have with nexctloud.
This imho needs attention before almost anything else when it comes to
the windows client.
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are you seriously comparing a free product made by 50 employees and many volunteers to a paid product coded by a corporation with 165000 employees and an annual revenue of $400 billion? Apple/Google/Dropbox have the resources to test all the quirks that can happen if you don't restart explorer.exe btw, if you click on "yes, you can reboot", then you can't complain "the computer did exactly was it was told" |
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Think you completely missed the point sorry mate.
Don't get me wrong, I utterly hate Apple, Microsoft and Google. I just
need to be able to move between physical locations and know my files are
there
…------ Original Message ------
From "Magneticdud" ***@***.***>
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Cc "platima" ***@***.***>; "Comment"
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Date 15/06/2023 6:12:33 PM
Subject Re: [nextcloud/desktop] Do not require restarting the PC after
installing with MSI installer (#3551)
are you seriously comparing a free product made by 50 employees and many
volunteers to a paid product coded by a corporation with 165000
employees and an annual revenue of $400 billion?
Apple/Google/Dropbox have the resources to test all the quirks that can
happen if you don't restart explorer.exe
btw, if you click on "yes, you can reboot", then you can't complain "the
computer did exactly was it was told"
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See, and this answer is why we can't have nice things. As if Google Drive is maintained by 165k people. I would not be surprised if the core team for Google Drive is smaller than nextclouds. Also: Nextcloud is a paid appllication when used by corps and I personally had a setup under my fingers where we paid for 200+ seats. The issue is that nextcloud behaves as it wants to take on the whole world, but does not get the basics right. Stop working on new features, but concentrate on what the app is really needed for. And for 95% of people this is well synced, convenient cloud storage. With a client that does not behave like WIndows 95 that needed a reboot when you plugged in a USB device. I am seriously cheering for NC and I recommended this project to everyone and have always suggested to pay for support or donate to move it forward. But if the answer to critical feedback like this is nothing but excuses, then I cannot help it. |
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To bring this back on-topic (albeit on a bug that has been fixed), the issues that I see with updates on the Windows agents are
At this point I'd make the argument that while MSI is nice for integration from the sysadmin's perspective, but it really seems to be forcing undesirable behaviours. A workaround may be to schedule the MSI install (through task scheduler?) when no users are logged in or before shutdown. This would require less work than swapping out the installer entirely, but would obviously be a stop-gap. @allexzander how fixable are some of these issues? I'm not so phased about them myself because I'm technical and used to them, but I know non-technical people who are driven up the wall by these behaviours. |
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So I install and refuse the reboot and have NEVER had a problem and it may be days before I actually reboot. (potentially until M$ Update forces it in the middle of the night then tries to pretend it didn't) The part about the installer stealing focus and unintentionally allowing a reboot is a problem that a million other apps have (I'm typing along and thunderbird pops up a notification, all my typing after it popped up is gone to the ether.) This happens all the time. Is it annoying, yes. If the installer would make not allowing the reboot be the default that would be great. Changing the message at the beginning of the install to EMPHASIZE to NOT work on anything else while the install is in progress would be 100% acceptable (This is what I do anyway, this is what everyone should always do with ANY installer or any other program that escalates privs. While the privs are escalated it can watch what you are doing). |
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You can also craft most exe installers to be 'friendly' with an MSI
wrapper.
At my company we sometimes need to mass-deploy exe-based installers, so
use
Otherwise if not going down the MSI route, which is mostly for Group
Policy, you could support /norestart /noui /silent arguments, with
'silent' being 'do not ask questions' and 'noui' just meaning
non-graphical so it can run headless.
This is what I normally use https://www.exemsi.com/download/ but it is a
bit of a pain. The best thing is when vendors release both EXE and MSI
installers, which many things like WiX and VSI support from what I
recall.
Cheers
…------ Original Message ------
From "nroach44" ***@***.***>
To "nextcloud/desktop" ***@***.***>
Cc "platima" ***@***.***>; "Comment"
***@***.***>
Date 15/06/2023 10:40:35 PM
Subject Re: [nextcloud/desktop] Do not require restarting the PC after
installing with MSI installer (#3551)
To bring this back on-topic (albeit on a bug that has been fixed), the
issues that I see with updates on the Windows agents are
Updates are completely interactive. Can they be done in the background
somehow? Can some kind of A/B system (see Chrome, Android) be set-up?
The Shell extension isn't (cannot be?) unloaded prior to removing the
file from disk. Can it be? If not, can we upgrade the file and just
leave it until explorer restarts?
MSI (?) determines that the only way to handle the shell extension issue
is a reboot.
The reboot prompt may steal focus during typing and cause an unintended
action to occur. Probably MSI again.
When the update offers to restart explorer, it leaves it closed, and /
or still requires a restart regardless. Can this be smarter, or can it
only require a log out and back in? I'm aware that this is probably
handled by MSI at the moment.
At this point I'd make the argument that while MSI is nice for
integration from the sysadmin's perspective, but it really seems to be
forcing undesirable behaviours.
A workaround may be to schedule the MSI install (through task
scheduler?) when no users are logged in or before shutdown. This would
require less work than swapping out the installer entirely, but would
obviously be a stop-gap.
@allexzander <https://github.com/allexzander> how fixable are some of
these issues? I'm not so phased about them myself because I'm technical
and used to them, but I know non-technical people who are driven up the
wall by these behaviours.
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I have recently started installing the windows client on our computers at the office to migrate from using older style file shares but having each of our user's have to reboot each time there is an update is not good which has so far been the case with each update. Maybe this isn't always the case with every update, will have to see over time but this is really rough, prompting for the update isn't great but I can give that a pass as other applications do that as well but requiring a reboot after each update is a really bad workflow. |
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@ChrisMagnuson I ALWAYS say no. The reboot, afaik, is just to refresh the icon overlays because the MIGHT need it. I have never had a problem. |
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@ChrisMagnuson & @captainwasabi |
Please feel free to open a new issue for this, so that your request can be tracked. My personal opinion is that giving the user the option to decide is OK for now. |
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@SamSirry I don't know much about the Windows process, but there are two "restarts" that are asked for during the upgrade:
Isn't 1. enough as in my understanding this "fixes"
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@kleajmp Basically the question and alerts are there so that if you DO have a problem when you upgrade you do remember that a reboot is going to fix it, rather than calling tech support. Yes yes, 90% of people are just gonna call IT anyway, and IT has an 80's era phone answering machine that just says "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" over and over and over again. This whole issue started because it WASN'T asking to reboot, It was just rebooting. That problem is solved in a 100% satisfactory way. The rest of this I just nonsense. You can always open an issue and submit a PR and see if it flies. |
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@captainwasabi Satisfactory, yes. 100%, no. For my personal taste, it's still too intrusive. Nobody needs a reboot--yes/no prompt. Just give me a pop-up telling me "Please reboot Windows at the earliest convenience.--OK". I don't want an app to reboot my computer at all. 90+% of cases will be users who have other applications open and need to close them before restarting, making a "convenient" yes/no prompt the exact opposite. They might accidentally click Yes and lose data (or just hit Enter--the focus is on Yes by default if memory serves), at a minimum they will feel pressured to do a restart that would be unneccessary in most cases. |
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This is exactly how Microsoft power toys does it and it is much much better.
They also have extensions to Windows file explorer that require a reboot
for them to be fully refreshed and so after an update, they say reboot at
your earliest convenience for all changes to take affect as a toast
notification instead of forcing them to acknowledge anything.
…On Sat, Sep 14, 2024 at 4:41 AM Kraligor ***@***.***> wrote:
@captainwasabi <https://github.com/captainwasabi> Satisfactory, yes.
100%, no. For my personal taste, it's still too intrusive. Nobody needs a
reboot--yes/no prompt. Just give me a pop-up telling me "Please reboot
Windows at the earliest convenience.--OK". I don't want an app to reboot my
computer at all. 90+% of cases will be users who have other applications
open and need to close them before restarting, making a "convenient" yes/no
prompt the exact opposite. They might accidentally click Yes and lose data
(or just hit Enter--the focus is on Yes by default if memory serves), at a
minimum they will feel pressured to do a restart that would be unneccessary
in most cases.
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I suggest kindly upvote #5251 since though the MSI has a confirmation now, it still says it must reboot always. |
and others
How to use GitHub
Feature description
Rebooting PC after installing the Nextcloud desktop client is really overkill.
MSI can be scripted to kill and run a process without restarting. Since we need to restart only just to allow Explorer.exe to reload and initialize context menus and overlay icons, we can simply kill it and run again it when the shell extension installation is complete.
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