👨💻☎ WinUI Community Call: February 15, 2023 #8137
Replies: 34 comments 41 replies
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I have a few questions :)
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I want to highlight that point 4 is important. We can see from all measurable social media places that WinAppSDK is absolutely not taken serious right now. |
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point 4 was answered in the chat for this month's community call. |
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Hello :) I do have a few questions as well: Considering the AppSDK is pivoting as the replacement for the legacy Windows.UI.Xaml platform:
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Question about availability on HoloLens should have in first step answered question about HoloLens future :/ |
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There was a question here about whether or not the GameBar SDK worked with WinAppSdk. Adding the NuGet to a WinUI 3 project quickly answers that question (no). |
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I am aware that the sdk does not work, hence my question about if there are any plans to make it work :) |
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Right, sorry for the confusion. @DarranRowe deleted the question/comment I was responding to. |
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@riverar Interestingly, I had deleted it before you even commented. |
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Productboard has been abandoned, because it has been maintained by member, who is not in Microsoft already. Better question is, if will be some alternative or reincarnation of this tool by team, not by member |
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Regarding product board take a look here: microsoft/WindowsAppSDK#3356 |
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@Panda-Sharp Not sure what I'm looking for there, but that doesn't explain why it's in the README. |
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@riverar never mind |
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How long for WinUI open sourcing? When will roadmaps and new features be detailed and set out? WinUI designer progress? Progress for more first party programs moving to WinUI 3 and WindowsAppSDK? |
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Tagging @AArnott for heads up |
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Regarding cswinrt and cswin32, when can we expect the same tooling capabilities/developer productivity of .NET Native and C++/CX, without the manual work and low level interop code that these alternatives (+ c++/winrt) require? |
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Yes, CsWin32 is still under development. It's mostly feature complete, and we are responding to bugs as well as filling in the rest of the feature gaps, as tracked by active issues. AFAIK CsWin32 works with .NET Native, but I haven't tested this. We do have an active issue around eliminating all reliance on the .NET marshaler in the CsWin32-emitted code since I understand such reliance would fail in .NET Native. |
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Can vouch for @AArnott (if anyone needed that). Been working with him a lot on metadata side of things, which, to me, is a good indicator CsWin32 development is alive and well. |
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That's awesome to hear and if it supports .net Native, Does it Also Support NativeAOT? |
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I have also few questions, targeted to touch:
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Hello, I have some questions.
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There was an issue on the Windows App SDK repo. You can find it here. It has an interesting reply that you may find useful. |
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How can we get bugs prioritised on the WindowsAppSdk / WinUI3.0 backlog? Or get feedback when they're getting tackled? |
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Good morning! It would be interesting to talk not only about technical issues, but about the project as a whole too.
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Hi!
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You can move it with ManipulationMode |
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What is the current status on SwapChainPanel is the team working on it? There is no WinUI 3 sample, the WinUI 3 docs reference a sample that has a VS2013 solution (does not even open in VS2022). Any plans to create a new WinUI SwapChainPanel sample? There seems to be a series of bugs related to SwapChainPanel, which is the reason why I ask whether this control is being worked on in general. E.g.: |
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In which language ? |
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I am not sure what you are asking @castorix? If it is where the current WinUI C# sample can be found then it is here in the 1.2.0 docs: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-app-sdk/api/winrt/microsoft.ui.xaml.controls.swapchainpanel?view=windows-app-sdk-1.2 first line under "Initializing a SwapChainPanel element". |
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SwapChainPanel works fine for me, if you're looking for a C# sample of using WinUI3's SwapChainPanel, there's one here: https://github.com/smourier/DirectN/tree/master/DirectN/DirectN.WinUI3.MinimalD3D11 the SwapChainPanel's part is actually quite simple |
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Any update on XamlIsland? Hosting WinUI 3 in WPF and hosting WPF in WinUI 3. |
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Any news about an equivalent solution of the ApplicationView.SetPreferredMinSize(Size) (UWP) method for the Windows App SDK? I know it's already possible (#2945 (comment)) but as 1.3 is "supposed" to simplify things for developers, it might be interesting. |
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This bug related to the same issue has been closed as not planned: Window's min size support. The proposal mentioned in there is still open. I know they said previously that they were looking at the Window classes so let's see. It seems beoynd belief that you would not have properties like this. Is there any other UI framework where you cannot set e.g. MinWidth on a Window? |
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It was mentioned in 2797 by @rkarman that this might be queued up for the 1.3 planning cycle. Is this still true, if not this should be a top priority. Not including basic windowing stuff from the get got was already a big enough mistake. |
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Here's an option: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1062421/set-min-size-of-windows-with-windows-app-sdk |
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https://www.winui3.org/news/winui-community-call-feb-15th-2023/ |
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Uhm, overlapping statement of joining forces with Uno, versus MAUI and Blazor, interesting..... |
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What is the status on #6299? |
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Nobody is porting their 3rd party Win32/MFC controls at the moment (because they all dont see the WinUI3 future). The window navigation and interaction and dialogs around the main window control (a complicated Graph and Text Control) would benefit from a modern look. But the hundert thousands of lines of the main window drawing is economically untouchable. We need total interoperability to get to the future. |
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Why bother with porting when the aging MFC provides a much better Visual Studio experience than using C++/WinRT, after C++/CX was deprecated in 2016 and to this day, C++/WinRT still feels like using ATL from 2000? C++ Builder and Qt/Qt Creator are the ones to look for a modem C++ experience, that C++/CX tried to provide, with the added benefit of being cross platform. If we need to rewrite, at least for better development experience stacks. |
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@llothar |
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When can we expect the ListView and GridView controls freezing issue to be fixed ? |
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@gabbbilka I see you have planned another WinUI Community call. I have asked several times to be considerate to people in east Asia (Taiwan, Japan, China). |
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@artkat It's impossible to accomodate everyone on the planet, so please don't pretend there's a "good" time to pick. Also, these videos tend to get like 1K views or less, and feed mostly from the Q&A here, so hardly worth the effort in trying to accomodate everyone. |
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I agree with this, I would be able to take part if it is earlier in the day rather that after midnight. @gabbybilka I suggest that each month you consider different time zones for community calls so everyone has the opportunity take part. |
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My dear brother @artkat, your interest in WinUI technologies is VERY MUCH appreciated! I understand your desire to have the times of the Community Call be more convenient for you. I used to live in Thailand and in Bangkok there is a very active Microsoft development community. In the future, I expect there will be WinUI Developer groups and conferences formed there. In the meantime, I will be publishing the video of this Community Call here: https://www.winui3.org/video-category/videos-winui-community-calls/ |
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Hi @artkat, @shane-vorwerk and others in East Asia and Oceanic time zones. Although we do our best to choose a time that accommodates the majority of the audience and our presenters, it's not possible to accommodate all. I wish we could! I could see us hosting a one-off session at a time zone that provides an opportunity for you to join us live, however I do not anticipate we will change the time we consistently host the sessions. Additionally, as @MarkBrainfire mentioned we save the recordings of each live call for you to watch at a more convenient time for you: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI_J2v67C23ZqsolUDaHoFkF1GKvGrttB |
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Are there any plans for improvement to XAML in General, Xaml has always been the same from the beginning. Regardless of Modern Techniques and etc.. For Example:
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I'm sure traditional app devs will give me the "don't do that" answer, but can the product team provide any information around a Hello World example that would load the proper types into PowerShell (5 or 7, either way)? This is possible to do with WPF and WinForm, and many SysAdmins build tools this way. Would be AWESOME to be able to do it with WinUI. I imagine a lot of it would be similar to WPF w/ XAML, but the knowledge in the community doesn't seem to be there to understand what types need to be loaded at runtime. |
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Thanks for continued work on WinUi. My question is for the timeline of being able to print with WebView2 on Winui2.x Thank you |
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I know you guys have said you're looking into a designer, but I'd like to add my voice to the choir. Hoping you guys bump it up as one of your priorities. Is there anything you can share about it at this moment? |
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It was mentioned that the funds weren't available for a first class XAML designer. I think this reflects a serious strategic mistake by Microsoft. Desktops (and laptops) have ALWAYS been the domain of Microsoft. Today, 80% of all real computers (desktops, laptops) are running Microsoft Windows. The power of these laptop computers has never been greater. Almost ALL serious work is done on these machines. Yet Microsoft's obsession with Azure and web apps that cater to mindless mobile phone scrollers is creating a world where every app depends upon the Internet and the "Cloud". That's a fragile world -- particularly in today's geopolitical environment. Microsoft should pull out the stops to MAINTAIN DOMINANCE OF THE DESKTOP / LAPTOP market. People should be able to run their software with or without an Internet connection. WinUI is the key! WinForms is STILL going strong today because it's so easy to use its drag and drop designer. OF COURSE, we should have this kind of easy to use drag and drop designer for XAML. It should be possible to quickly create WinUI 3 apps without ever needing to see a XAML page. MVVM binding can be built into the designer. RAD RAD RAD. Remember? Any of us could sit down in a few hours and knock out an impressive WinForms application.. It should be the same for WinUI 3 development. And remember, WinUI 3 coupled with Uno Platform enables your WinUI 3 application to run LOCALLY on ANY desktop or computer (Mac OS and Linux) as well as all mobile devices. (and WASM is an added bonus). So WinUI 3 IS THE GATEWAY TO A NEW APPROACH FOR DEVELOPING SOFTWARE. In the next few days you'll hear lots talk about Blazor Unified. But does anyone want to develop a complex desktop application in Blazor (or Xamarin Forms for that matter). NO! We want to develop applications in C#, WinUI 3 and then use Uno Platform to enable those applications to run EVERYWHERE. So, coming up with the funds to develop a RAD XAML designer for WinUI 3 will enable Microsoft to maintain its desktop dominance. |
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I would like to give some feedback and report some issues about the Widgets development, but I don't really know where I can post it. Maybe here is a good place? maybe on the issues of this repo (but because I didn't see any issue with this topic I wasn't sure? or maybe there is an specific place for this, in that case, where it is? Thanks! |
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What is the status of a XAML designer/previewer? In this repository, the "WinUI 3.0 XAML Designer" discussion (#5917) is 2nd most-commented issue and has the 3rd most likes of all issues. Clearly the customers want a XAML designer/previewer rather than Hot Reload. Can you please elaborate on the status of this feature? |
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Can we get an update about MicrosoftEdge/WebView2Feedback#3003 (aka WinUI3 WebView2 mouse stop working while keyboard is still working) since things became a bit silent after moving the issue to WindowsAppSDK team and it's still a high priority defect. |
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Why has the active further development of WinUi2 been discontinued, although WinUi3 is still in a disastrous state? |
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I have a few questions:
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This live event has now ended, but you can view the recording on YouTube at the link above. If you didn't get your question answered, feel free to open a Q&A discussion or leave your question for the next call. Thanks for joining! |
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Is there a reason why you didn't go through the questions asked here? besides feature related questions everything else was skipped. It's the first community call I participate but my expectations were that you will address all of them. |
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It has always been this way. |
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It has always been this way. |
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@bogdan-patraucean Here's what I pulled out of the video #8137 (comment) I haven't gone through the chat stream, might be a few extra in there. |
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It was mentioned that the funds weren't available for a first class XAML designer. I think this reflects a serious strategic mistake by Microsoft. Desktops (and laptops) have ALWAYS been the domain of Microsoft. Today, 80% of all real computers (desktops, laptops) are running Microsoft Windows. The power of these laptop computers has never been greater. Almost ALL serious work is done on these machines. Yet Microsoft's obsession with Azure and web apps that cater to mindless mobile phone scrollers is creating a world where every app depends upon the Internet and the "Cloud". That's a fragile world -- particularly in today's geopolitical environment. Microsoft should pull out the stops to MAINTAIN DOMINANCE OF THE DESKTOP / LAPTOP market. People should be able to run their software with or without an Internet connection. WinUI is the key! WinForms is STILL going strong today because it's so easy to use its drag and drop designer. OF COURSE, we should have this kind of easy to use drag and drop designer for XAML. It should be possible to quickly create WinUI 3 apps without ever needing to see a XAML page. MVVM binding can be built into the designer. RAD RAD RAD. Remember? Any of us could sit down in a few hours and knock out an impressive WinForms application.. It should be the same for WinUI 3 development. And remember, WinUI 3 coupled with Uno Platform enables your WinUI 3 application to run LOCALLY on ANY desktop or computer (Mac OS and Linux) as well as all mobile devices. (and WASM is an added bonus). So WinUI 3 IS THE GATEWAY TO A NEW APPROACH FOR DEVELOPING SOFTWARE. In the next few days you'll hear lots of talk about "Blazor United". But does anyone want to develop a complex desktop application in Blazor (or Xamarin Forms for that matter)? No! We want to develop stateful, fast, applications in C#, WinUI 3 and then use Uno Platform to enable those applications to run EVERYWHERE. So, coming up with the funds to develop a RAD XAML designer for WinUI 3 will enable Microsoft to maintain its desktop dominance. |
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Q&A transcribed from the video (not from the chat window). @omikhailov @riverar @dotMorten @dotMorten Covers 4-5 general questions Covers various questions Steve Terepin Covers various questions Bogdan Unknown |
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Wish WinUI would be a standalone component on top of WASDK |
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@Panda-Sharp Saw your emoji; is something about the transcript confusing? |
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@riverar just disappointed by the replies |
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@Panda-Sharp Ah got it, thanks! |
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and others
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This live event has now ended, but you can view the recording on YouTube at the link below. If you didn't get your question answered, feel free to open a Q&A discussion. Thanks all for joining!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcgc5CLqUkM
Details
Date: February 15, 2023
Time: 17:00-18:00 UTC (9:00-10:00am Pacific)
Anyone and everyone is welcome - no pre-registration is required.
This will be an informal interactive live stream directly with members of our engineering team.
Format
The community call is a call among the WinUI team that is live-streamed onto YouTube. We present on new updates, share information, welcome guests, and answer your questions.
Agenda
Q&A Code of Conduct
Leave us your questions in the comments on this issue or live in the YouTube chat during the stream!
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