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C compiler #1443

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stevexyz opened this issue Oct 28, 2022 · 76 comments
Open

C compiler #1443

stevexyz opened this issue Oct 28, 2022 · 76 comments

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@stevexyz
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Maybe I'm wrong (I just tried to install elks on an original PC IBM XT), but seems to me that no C compiler is included inside elks (I've found the basic language interpreter though), while I think that's one of the basic thing of every Linux system.

If that's the case, I understand that a mammoth GCC might not really fit the project, but maybe the small and powerful tcc might be an option!

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Oct 28, 2022

Hello @stevexyz,

Thanks for your interest in ELKS. A few years back, the project switched from using bcc to ia16-elf-gcc to build the kernel and all the applications. One of the big reasons was the lack of support for 8086 segmented architecture linker and compiler options that are not present in bcc (or tcc). Unfortunately, gcc is way too large to be able to be included in ELKS runtime, so there isn't a way for ELKS to be self-compiled, but this has been viewed as a reasonable tradeoff, all things considered.

I'm a fan of tcc, but the question is, given the limitations of segmented-mode 8086, what purpose would it serve, doing the work to get a self-hosted compiler running, when none available contain the features required to build the current kernel and all of the applications?

Thank you!

@stevexyz
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To me a C compiler is the base of a complete Linux (Unix) system...
Don't know what are the current priority of the project but seems to me this one should be relevant.
And if tcc is not ready or worst suitable maybe there are other options: back in the day there were many compilers, and all run on the basic x86 segmented architecture.
Just willing to add that was amazing to see Linux booting in the XT, this addition is for sure keeping the bar very high! :) For now compliments to all developers!!

@Mellvik
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Mellvik commented Oct 29, 2022

Hi @stevexyz -
let me add my 2 cents to this discussion.

To me a C compiler is the base of a complete Linux (Unix) system...

Here's the the thing: ELKS is not a complete Linux or Unix system. Like the name says, it's intended for embedded systems. Embedded systems have limited resources and are rarely if ever selfcompiling. Of course our vintage PCs aren't embedded systems, but they have very limited resources. And - as @ghaerr also alluded to - it just doesn't make sense to have that ambition. Possibly fun, but not useful.

Think about it - what we have today is a cross development environment with gcc and tools that today's developers are familiar with and expect. And a decent cross host you can grep the entire source tree for something in a couple of seconds. Try to do something similar on your XT - you'd probably have to come back the next day.

I have Venix running on one of my machines, a 286/12. It's a complete Unix system. It can compile itself if I had full sources, and I've done a lot of development on it. In the mid 80s and recently. It has make, cc, sccs and the most basic (early) PWB tools (basically a V7 system - anno ca. 1980). And there are no cross tools, so everything is local. I can assure you, it's not a development environment you'd want to live in. It's extremely slow - and I keep asking myself how I could possibly stay sane while working in this environment in the 80s. The truth is that expectations were different then. Having your own 'complete' Unix system just qualified the endless waits - and coffee breaks :-) .

And if tcc is not ready or worst suitable maybe there are other options: back in the day there were many compilers, and all run on the basic x86 segmented architecture.

Yes, the compilers you're referring to RUN on the segmented architecture, but they support only parts of it – the small, maybe medium memory model, that's all. They have very limited options and support-tools (like cpp supporting only a few of your favorite #preprocessor commands, no objdump etc etc). Try porting any modern piece of open source code to such a system and you'll start pulling your hair out right away. I spent a lot of time trying to get rz/sz running on Venix a while back - it ended up being a BIG project because of the limitations in the compiler - not to mention in make. And because many of the source files were too big for vi.

Just willing to add that was amazing to see Linux booting in the XT, this addition is for sure keeping the bar very high! :) For now compliments to all developers!!

ELKS has come a long way, the last few years in particular. Your contributions would be very welcome. Even a native C-compiler. It's your time and your choice - and you'll get plenty support from the group regardless of whether the target tool/application is for the few or the many.

--M

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Oct 29, 2022

Not for self-compiling but to make small debug program, it is nice to have a small compiler on ELKS. I now uses the basic to peek memory or read ports on the real PC from the background but sometimes wants to do a little more complicated.

@stevexyz
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As already mentioned by @tyama501 it was not to be used to self compiling, even if it would have been a nice thing. And especially for starting, if there is something that is ready to be used, doesn't really matter if it is supporting just a limited memory model, but at least you can compile and run some programs on the system without always access another computer.

For now I've other (unfortunately too many) projects going on and I'll stay on the window looking the ways ELKS will grow up, but in the future if it will still be not developed maybe I'll give it a try!

In the meantime keep up the good work and happy hacking!

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Nov 3, 2022

I thought more deeply about exactly what is entailed when someone says "I'd like a C compiler" to run native on ELKS. As @tyama501 and @stevexyz mentioned, it would be nice to be able to at least just compile some programs from within ELKS.

In order to do that, we'd need the following:

  • Compilation of the ELKS C library into .o (object) and .a (archive) formats. The host-based .o and .a formats are incompatible, as they're oriented around the host ia16-elf-gcc toolchain. That means we'd need to compile all the C library on ELKS itself (not cross-compiled, unless the target ELKS compiler also runs on Linux and macOS), and that would have to be done on a VM running ELKS, in order to be kept current.
  • We'll need make on the target, as well as any commands used in the C library Makefiles.
  • We'll need easy ways to make (large) target disks that contain all the library sources, for compilation. We've pretty much got that, but need scripts to make it happen.
  • The C library sources would need to be ported to the new C compiler, as will all .s/.S (assembly language) source files. Although most of the library is portable, any uses of far pointers, asm() directives, or incompatible gcc preprocessor directives need changing. Of course, any of these files could be left out, but that might inhibit desired C library routines.
  • All the header files would need to be copied to the target (development) filesystem. I have not checked whether they'd all fit on a floppy, or whether the ELKS C compiler would require an HD. Most of our users now use ELKS on floppy, and we don't yet have an easy way to update hard drive images, but we're working on it.
  • The C compiler chosen will have to be modified to output the special ELKS a.out file format, (which is almost but not quite MINIX v1). This will likely take some work, after porting the C compiler, preprocessor, assembler, linker and front-end to ELKS. None of the tools can use any more memory than 64K to compile any programs. The ia16-elf-gcc compiler actually produces Linux ELF-format output, and uses a seperate elf2elks executable to convert the ELF format to a.out format. We could use the same method, but that program has to be written from scratch, not just ported.

After all this, there are all the issues that @Mellvik brings up, which include problems associated with having no objdump, a different ASM language, possibly problems with vi or other editors not being able to edit a file in limited memory, and slow compilation times.

All in all - I have agree with @Mellvik that such a project is not really what people think of "having a C compiler" for ELKS.

On another note, I was thinking about some C interpreters that might be able to provide fast execution of simple C programs, such as the C in 4 functions compiler. It is very cool with a small code size, and allows for calling out of various functions like printf into the host-based C library. However, it is definitely not clear whether such a thing would run on ELKS. For instance, C4 uses 5 allocations of 256K each (hugely over our 64K data limit) by default. I might take a pass at allocating much smaller sizes for the source and produced symbol tables, object files and data, but I imagine this will likely greatly limit what C files can be compiled, and we still won't have the normal ELKS C library (nor multiple file compilation nor any linking).

Thank you!

@tkchia
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tkchia commented Nov 7, 2022

Hello @stevexyz, @ghaerr, @tyama501,

I suspect that the Amsterdam Compiler Kit might be a good candidate for an ELKS-hosted C compiler, though I have not really got around to working on such a thing, and it probably needs a fair amount of effort. I believe ACK used to be the standard toolchain for Minix — including Minix/8086 — and besides, it is written to be able to run on small systems.

Thank you!

@stevexyz
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stevexyz commented Jan 27, 2023

Seems to me that https://github.com/alexfru/SmallerC would be a very good start: seems easy enough and producing already 16 bit x86 code in various models, and with self compilation the ported compiler if it will produce the binary elk file. Maybe the author itself would adapt it if requested and specification of the binary file are given: if it is considered good we can try to ask.

PS: @ghaerr I had a look at c in 4 functions, and while being an amazing exercise of minimization, seems really not easy to port to minimal memory systems for the way it has been designed

@Randrianasulu
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just as comment, I tried to play with old "ACK for Minix" from https://web.archive.org/web/20070910201015/http://www.laurasia.com.au/ack/index.html#download on Minix i86 (not i386) qemu VM.

Well, it ran out of memory :) trying to compile itself under existing 'cc' compiler there.

@Randrianasulu
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Also, Portable C Compiler website seems to be down (and web archive does not have latest copy) so here I found slightly updated (2021) copy of code

https://github.com/matijaskala/pcc
but originally it was at
https://github.com/IanHarvey/pcc

There seems to be some code related by i86 generation by Alan Cox.

Also, someone (Eric J. Korpela) looked at lcc-8086 but not get very far
https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/~korpela/

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Mar 24, 2023

Hello @Randrianasulu and @tkchia,

Thank you @Randrianasulu for the links to PCC, I'll take a look at it. Same for LCC-8086, that work looks extremely old but could be worthwhile. Of course, it would probably be a good idea to consider only using ANSI-capable (vs K&R) compilers, given where most C code is at today.

I tried to play with old "ACK for Minix" from https://web.archive.org/web/20070910201015/http://www.laurasia.com.au/ack/index.html#download on Minix i86 (not i386) qemu VM.

Well, it ran out of memory :) trying to compile itself under existing 'cc' compiler there.

It's probably not needed that the compiler be able to compile itself under ELKS (or MINIX), so that's OK. I am not familiar to what degree ACK has been updated to any ANSI standards, and/or long/long log/float support etc.

In the case of running on ELKS, we now have the issue that some portions of the C library may be using some ia16-elf-gcc-specific features. This would have to be looked into.

@tkchia, you had mentioned you're possibly somewhat familiar with ACK, would that be a version similar to that used for MINIX as described above, or has there been more work done updating it, to your knowledge?

Thank you!

@Randrianasulu
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@ghaerr I found little something supposed to help with backtranslating ANSI C to older dialect:
https://github.com/udo-munk/unproto

Also, may be Xenix (286) a.out variant can be used to get some idea how multiple segments were supported.

https://ibcs-us.sourceforge.io/
look for sources - x.out

@tkchia
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tkchia commented Mar 24, 2023

Hello @ghaerr,

@tkchia, you had mentioned you're possibly somewhat familiar with ACK, would that be a version similar to that used for MINIX as described above, or has there been more work done updating it, to your knowledge?

I have not yet done a comparison of the "laurasia" copy of ACK, and David Given's current ACK tree — I hope to do that soon.

At the moment I am more familiar with Mr. Given's source tree (since I have been working on it a bit). Some impressions:

  • It is an extremely bog-standard C89 compiler.
    • By that I mean, it has close to no syntactical extensions whatsoever. Inline assembly is simply not a thing. And, there is a #pragma directive, but there are no pragmas (yet).
    • Some machine targets support long long, but not all. In particular the 8086 back-end does not have long long support yet.
    • There are also vestiges of a K&R compiler, but it is most likely dead code.
  • The runtime libraries do implement some POSIX functionality in addition to the C89 stuff though. Plus of course we can add our own extension libraries.
  • In terms of 8086 support:
    • The compiler front-end can currently produce 8086 PC booter programs (-mpc86) and MS-DOS .com files (-mmsdos86). Unfortunately for some reason it no longer supports MINIX a.out output — I guess MINIX support fell by the wayside while the code was updated (?).
    • There is an out-of-line assembler which mostly works. It can use some improvement (The 386 assembler is terrible davidgiven/ack#271).
    • Currently 8086 floating-point support assumes that there is an 8087. (I believe that for some other target platforms, e.g. CP/M for 8080, it can actually do software floating point.)

Thank you!

@Randrianasulu
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Randrianasulu commented Mar 24, 2023

slightly newer ackpack for minix (1.1.2)
https://web.archive.org/web/20060405092432/http://packages.minix3.org/software/ackpack.tar.bz2

weirdly it comes as tar.tar. I only get file by downloading it via browser, not via wget. Same source should still be in Minix3 git, but a bit obscured because it was deleted years ago ...

info from
https://sourceforge.net/p/tack/mailman/message/36608143/

@Randrianasulu
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so, there was another compiler (c86 ?) but license prohibit commercial use.

https://github.com/plusk01/8086-toolchain/tree/master/compiler

@Randrianasulu
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@Randrianasulu
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ah, it was not complete compiler, just c to asm (nasm in this version) compiler. It needed cc (main driver), ld86 (linker), c preprocessor (it seems for Psion 3 they tried Decus cpp, available in X11R3 distribution - not tried to build it yet). So, some sources are newer in C68 (for QDOS - mk68k/ Sinchlair QL system) but part of older EPOC sources still live at older site:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010414060410/http://www.itimpi.freeserve.co.uk/cpocdown.htm#SOURCE
Only ld86 and cc survived ... and even then, this ld86 outputs by default Psion's IMG format. Still, something!

@stevexyz
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150908032106/http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/compsrc.htm - so it was named c68, too ...

Seems has already a lot of options, among them the ones for 8086 specific:

...
         INTEL 8086 OPTIONS

              The options  listed in  this section apply when generating
              16-bit code  for use  on Intel processors.  They will only
              be available  if support for the Intel 8086 processor type
              was specified at the time the compiler was built.

              -fpu=yes|no
                        Specify whether  operations  involving  floating
                        point variables should generate in-line calls to
                        the a  hardware floating  point unit, or whether
                        calls  are   made  instead  to  library  support
                        routines. Using  library support routines allows
                        floating point  operations  to  be  carried  out
                        purely in software.

                        Default:  -fpu=yes

              -pointer=16|32
                        Specifies that  the code  should be generated to
                        conform to  the small  memory model  (64K data +
                        64K code segments) which uses 16 bit pointers or
                        the large model which uses 32 bit pointers.

                        Default:  -pointer=16


              If support  for multiple  processors and/or assemblers was
              configured when  the compiler  was  built,  then  you  can
              specify the  target to  be a 8086 processor and a specific
              assembler can be specified using the following options:

              -bas86    Generate 8086  code.  Use  the syntax  for Bruce
                        Evan's 16 bit 8086 assembler for the output.

              -gas86    Generate  8086  code.   Use  the  GNU  assembler
                        syntax for the output.

              -masm86   Generate 8086  code.   Use  the  Microsoft  MASM
                        assembler syntax for the output

              -sysv86   Generate 8086 code.  Use the Unix SVR4 assembler
                        syntax for the output.

...

@Randrianasulu
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so, I have something horribly broken, but it makes .o files!

https://github.com/Randrianasulu/c86

make on linux/termux should give you some binaries.

@tkchia
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tkchia commented Mar 27, 2023

@Randrianasulu : it is almost certainly still not GPL-compatible though.

@Randrianasulu
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https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=6f433c5ba2f3dacbf1b3f2859197505dc440b4d9

seems to be very detailed document about c68 by author (I tried to send email to him, but no idea if old email address still works)

@Randrianasulu
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https://qlforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2112 - may be he has new email, forwarded to it too

@stevexyz
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@Randrianasulu : it is almost certainly still not GPL-compatible though.

just at the beginning of the C68 QL manual it says that it is Public Domain (even with capitals):

INTRODUCTION
The C68 Compilation System provides a Public Domain C compiler for use
under the QDOS operating system.

@tkchia
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tkchia commented Mar 28, 2023

Hello @stevexyz,

I mentioned this because @Randrianasulu stated that the source files themselves seem to prohibit commercial use. And I see that system.c states both "All commercial rights reserved" and "The C68 compiler forms part of a complete Public Domain development system for all these [QDOS] environments" (in the same file). So the licensing status of the C68 source code seems to me to be murky at best.

Thank you!

@Randrianasulu
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little aside (feel free to hide) but MAME got Psion 3 emulation inmore working state lately

https://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=121869&page=3
(not very big fan of 2gb gcc process during compilation but I probably can let it happen onse in year or so)

@Randrianasulu
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Randrianasulu commented Apr 9, 2023

also faucc (286 & 386 codegen only?)

https://gitlab.cs.fau.de/faumachine/faucc/-/commits/master
(not really changed since 2012 ..?)

EDIT: sadly it does not compile faumachine's new bios :( also, no FP. so, not very useful?

@bocke
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bocke commented Jul 28, 2023

ah, it was not complete compiler, just c to asm (nasm in this version) compiler.

Just a sidenote, but I think NASM does support ELKS a.out format. LCC port might use NASM too.

Anyways, last time I looked into ELKS binary format it had some limits on DATA and CODE segment sizes similar to Minix 1. Is that still the same? What are the limits?

Is it now possible to make something like large memory model executables in MS-DOS with GCC-iA16?

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Jul 29, 2023

@bocke:

I think NASM does support ELKS a.out format. LCC port might use NASM too.

I'm not sure about whether NASM supports a 16-bit MINIX a.out format or not. Does NASM support ELF output? If so, the binary could likely be converted to ELKS a.out format using our own elf2elks tool, which is also used to post-process ia16-elf-gcc ELF output for ELKS.

The ELKS toolchain and kernel currently offer the ability to create and run small (64K code, 64K data) and medium (128K code, 64k data) model programs. Access to a larger data segment is possible through C __far pointers and using the fmemalloc system call to allocate main system memory, but that's all got to be done manually by the programmer. Thus, large model (> 64K data) isn't explicitly supported, but can be done with some effort.

@bocke
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bocke commented Jul 29, 2023

I took a peek at NASM. It doesn't support Minix/ELKS directly. It supports as86 obj files though. They could be then linked with ld86 into elks binary, I think. My memory is a bit murky on this.

Thanx for the info on memory model support ghaerr. Much appreciated.

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Jun 6, 2024

OK, I could build the libc by setting
WATDIR /bin/watcom
and
INCLUDES += -I$(WATDIR)/h in watcom.inc
image
I need to compile ewcc and ewlink.

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Jun 6, 2024

I needed to also modify WATCINCLUDE in ewcc and ewlink.

ewcc worked but it seems that I don't have os2.lib for ewlink.
image

Where should this be? (Maybe tomorrow...)

Thank you.

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Jun 6, 2024

Oh, there is basic.
image

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Jun 6, 2024

I needed to also modify WATCINCLUDE in ewcc and ewlink.

Ok, we can consider what might need to change with our compiler scripts once we get your and other programmer's installations working. This likely means that those changes need to reside in libc/watcom just like libc/watcom/watcom.model does.

ewcc worked but it seems that I don't have os2.lib for ewlink.

That is normal, there is no os2.lib since we don't want to incorrectly link with an OS/2 library. Instead, you will see that ewlink links with libc/libc.lib. I think that might want to be renamed perhaps to something like "wclib.lib".

Oh, there is basic.

Yes, that is the correct one. It is smaller because the math routines aren't included yet.

Here is my build script for basic:

ewcc basic.c
ewcc host.c
ewcc host-stubs.cj
ewlink basic.obj host.obj host-stubs.obj

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Jun 7, 2024

Hello @ghaerr ,

Thank you. The basic (for the IBM) worked.

I will try to add fmemalloc system call as we talked in
#1912 (comment)

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Jul 4, 2024

Now that the capability to run multisegment large-model programs is working via #1924, the stage is set such that the OpenWatcom C compiler itself should be able to be compiled to run on ELKS, along with the ELKS C library. This should be possible since OWC builds a 16-bit MSDOS version when built from source.

Actually getting to that point will likely take some time, as the compilation for OWC (the entire toolchain) on my macOS system takes 45+ minutes, so much more needs to be learned about OWC internals to speed up the development process.

Given the many Intel 8086 architecture segment-oriented capabilities of OpenWatcom C, I believe it to be a superior choice for a self-hosted ELKS C compiler. I have to say, back in 2022 when @stevexyz first opened this issue, I didn't believe there'd be a suitable compiler for ELKS until @tyama501 mentioned the owtarget16 project and OWC in May! Thank you for everyone's comments.

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Jul 19, 2024

Hello,
I have added the following comments to the wiki page.
You don't need to build OpenWatcom, you can use installer if you use linux.
Looking for more testers:)

https://github.com/ghaerr/elks/wiki/Using-OpenWatcom-C-with-ELKS
If OpenWatcom is installed from the installer to linux and the repository is not available,
then the WATDIR can be /bin/watcom and the WATCOM can be WATDIR/binl64.
Also, you may need to modify
INCLUDES += -I$(WATDIR)/bld/hdr/dos/h to
INCLUDES += -I$(WATDIR)/h
in elks/libc/watcom.inc
...
If OpenWatcom is installed from the installer to linux,
you may need to modify
WATCINCLUDE=$WATDIR/bld/hdr/dos/h to
WATCINCLUE=$WATDIR/h
in the ewcc

Thank you!

@tyama501
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Also, you don't need to build elks to test the binary.
You can just download the latest build.
https://github.com/ghaerr/elks/actions/runs/9979588982

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Jul 20, 2024

Also, you may need to modify
you may need to modify

Thanks for the information. I think ewcc and wcenv.sh may be able to be modified to work with OWC built from source or their binary installer, by adding both directories into the shell scripts. I've added that to my TODO list.

Thank you!

@rafael2k
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I followed the wiki to compile the libc with OW, but I get (watcom installed from installer on Linux 64):

make -f watcom.mk 
watcom.inc:12: /libc/watcom.model: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target '/libc/watcom.model'.  Stop.

@rafael2k
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Got it. I had to define TOPDIR. But there is no mention about it in the wiki.

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Jul 31, 2024

Hello @rafael2k, thanks for trying out our new Watcom support! Let us know how it goes.

I had to define TOPDIR. But there is no mention about it in the wiki.

I'll take a further look at checking for TOPDIR being set and issue an appropriate error message.

@rafael2k
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Thanks @ghaerr!
Now I can resume my pet project to port ssh to Elks!
: )

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Jul 31, 2024

Now I can resume my pet project to port ssh to Elks!

Good luck on that! I fully expect the executable to be quite large. But now we should be able to handle that part. As stated over here, we'll likely need to finish filling out the missing system calls for the ELKS OW C library, but that's pretty easy. You may run into other bigger problems with the OW SSH application acting like a typical DOS program and trying to handle it's own keyboard and/or timer interrupts, which would require additional work.

@rafael2k
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rafael2k commented Aug 1, 2024

Btw, thanks for the wonderful work on enabling OW on Elks!
: )
So about the DOS-ish stuff - I think part of the work then will be "revert" some changes done for porting the software from Linux to DOS (and now back to Elks).

@rafael2k
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rafael2k commented Aug 1, 2024

One suggestion: add ewlink and ewcc directory to PATH in "wcenv.sh".
: )

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Aug 2, 2024

add ewlink and ewcc directory to PATH in "wcenv.sh".

I was going to do this but now see that would require the ELKS $TOPDIR variable to be included wcenv.sh, which adds a duplicate to the already-existing ELKS env.sh. I've updated the Wiki page and added the additional setup . ./env.sh instead. As we get further along the process of adding OpenWatcom support, perhaps the two scripts can be integrated with some more work.

@rafael2k
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rafael2k commented Aug 3, 2024

Btw, what do you all think about the effort needed to port dev86 development toolkit for Elks be ported to run on Elks itself by compiling it with OW?

https://github.com/lkundrak/dev86

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Aug 4, 2024

what do you all think about the effort needed to port dev86 development toolkit for Elks be ported to run on Elks itself by compiling it with OW?

The dev86 development toolkit is very out of date as it uses the ancient bcc C compiler (which used to be used by ELKS around 4+ years ago). IMO bcc is not good enough to be considered an option for compiling the kinds of ELKS applications we have today, so I would say its not worth any effort.

A far better option would be to port the OpenWatcom C compiler and toolchain itself to ELKS, which would give us tons of capability for modern ELKS applications, even though it doesn't (yet) compile the kernel. Since the ELKS C library is already successfully being compiled by OWC, we should be able to pretty much stop cross-compiling if we wanted to as soon as OWC was ported to ELKS.

The OWC toolchain is available and can build for execution on DOS itself, so I feel it quite possible to get OWC compiled for running on ELKS. The big problem at the moment is knowledge and time - the OW repo is very large and took 45 minutes just to compile on macOS, so it'll take a bit of work to figure out what needs to done to cross-compile OWC for ELKS (using OS/2 executable output, of course!)

@tyama501
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tyama501 commented Aug 4, 2024

I thought OpenWatcom is using DPMI DOS4G for protected memory.
Do we have chance to solve it to run on elks?

@rafael2k
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rafael2k commented Aug 4, 2024

Indeed. Current OW needs at least:

  • An 80386 or higher processor
  • 8 MB of memory

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Aug 4, 2024

I thought OpenWatcom is using DPMI DOS4G for protected memory.
8 MB of memory

Oh no! This definitely shoots a big hole in my original plan to port OpenWatcom to run on ELKS :/ I'm not sure where I came up with the idea it would, I just guessed with its large and huge model support it ran in real mode for DOS. This puts me back to square one for ideas on a C compiler for ELKS. Dang!

@rafael2k
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rafael2k commented Aug 4, 2024

As far as I can find, latest version of Watcom which run on real-mode DOS was Watcom 6.0 (1988) or 8.0 (according to wikipedia), which we don't have the source code.

@rafael2k
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rafael2k commented Aug 4, 2024

Anyway, we can have a more precise anwser from @jmalak.

@ghaerr
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ghaerr commented Aug 4, 2024

I opened a discussion at OpenWatcom on this.

@jmalak
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jmalak commented Aug 4, 2024

I have only note related to OpenWatcom.
You need not to build OpenWatcom you can use binary OW snapshot which contains full OpenWatcom for all build hosts. It is one big tar file that you can restore it anywhere and configure WATCOM environment variable to point this location and add to PATH binary subdir for your host.
below is subdir by OS

subdir Host OS
armo64 OSX ARM 64-bit
binl Linux Intel 32-bit
binl64 Linux Intel 64-bit
binnt Windows 32-bit
binnt64 Windows 64-bit
bino64 OSX Intel 64-bit
binp OS/2 32-bit
binw DOS, 16-bit Windows

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