Question/discussion about emulating roomtemp for rego2000/3000(bosch 3800i)

[mattfro]

What should I choose for control?
I have tried RC100, nothing show up(in ems-esp/devices, if I choose RC100H it shows up but I get an alarm and the temperature is never shown in the pump.
If I chose RC200, it shows up in devices and temperature is set in the pump the first time, but if I update the temperature it does not update in emulated RC200 or pump. I can get it sometimes to update if I set control again and remotetemp. But not working always.

not sure if this is supported for this pump, I think Bosch CR10/RC100 is supported as a real one and also Bosch CR5 RF.
So I'm not sure if I have understood it wrongly, or configured it wrong or it does not work.

And if you want logs, what should I test with, that should most likely work with my "pump", so we can go from there. I can then write a issue ticket if you like? But first, it's more like a question if I'm even understanding or doing it correctly.

[MichaelDvP]

Please check what options the boiler have for control and if they match the emsesp entity selection of thermostat/hc1/control.
You need to set control first to RC100(H) or RC200, and after this is active you can send remotetemp. Emsesp uses the control setting to decide if RC200 or RC100H is emulated, in other positions the remottemp is not set. If the control setting does not match the boiler option (e.g emsesp setting RC200, but boiler shows CR10) you will run into errors.

[mattfro]

Well...the problem is, boiler/heatpump itself does not have any settings or does not show what kind of "sensor" you have. And the only one I did not get any errors in the pump itself and it got a value that stays the same was rc200. But I wonder if I need to do full reset on the pump to get those settings. I have been through all settings including service settings. Can't find anything about the roomtemperature sensor. With RC200 I can see the value of the remotetemp. But after that it never gets a new value, so if I set it as 25C it will stay as that even if I change it in ems-esp. Maybe I need to test more...perhaps take some logs. For me it's really difficult to understand all ems logs.

And btw. when I get that value once from the ems-esp I can also see the "room temperature offset setting" in the UI, so I can also change that manually there(in the pump).

Settings that I have found from a manual, is on the sensor side: CR10 for example you need to set to Fb (remote control) mode and use HC1.

What I know 3800i should support CR10 and CR5 RF at least.
CR5 RF only needs to be connected and that's it. No settings at all according to the manual, only pair the sensor to mx200(which is the receiver).

Seems, I need to do some more testing :) if you don't have any other ideas?

[MichaelDvP]

itself does not have any settings or does not show what kind of "sensor" you have

Again: You have to configure in the thermstat that there is a remote of type RC200 or RC100H, and this shows in emsesp as thermostat/hc1/control. If this setting is wrong, it can not work! I will add some code to switch off the remote temp on wrong settings.

What I know 3800i should support CR10 and CR5 RF at least.

If you can provide a full log of the real remotes, we can try to emulate. We have no CR10 and no CR5FRF in the database yet, so no user have these devices.

[mattfro]

Ok... will try again. Thanks, CR10 should be same as RC100, without the H I think. So if I can choose RC100, it should work :) But that is not possible to choose, only RC100H (Does H stand for humidity?) Strange tat RC200 was working the closest when I tried.
Anyways, will get back when I test more.

I do not have any CR10 or RC100 or even CR5RF :( That's why I want to emulate it instead. Wasn't there a log for CR10 in some old discussion or trouble report?

[mattfro]

RC200 and I got the value in my pump

here are logs also:
rc200_1.log

[K000+00:05:09.437 I 190: [command] �[0;33mCalling command 'thermostat/control' (control device) with value RC200
[K000+00:07:47.941 I 1165: [command] [0;33mCalling command 'thermostat/control' (control device) with value RC200
[K000+00:07:50.212 I 1178: [command] [0;33mCalling command 'thermostat/remotetemp' (room temperature from remote) with value 23

seems I needed to set it twice...and when I got it working, seems after that I can't update the values anymore.
I don't know if you have time to check or so... and in the pump I checked many time, no way to change type of thermostat there in the UI.
Seems for older version, like bosch compress 3000 there is. So I don't know if they have kind of made it automatic or something to figure out what type of sensor it is.

I really would not like to buy a CR10 or CR5RF. But I guess, I'm going to need to do so if this wont work.

Going tomorrow, or today take logs with RC100H...I could see it that the pump, could just get a line there with no temp.

[MichaelDvP]

Changing the control does not work on your system:
Me(0x0B) -W-> thermostat(0x10), HPMode(0x0291), data: 01 (offset 3)
thermostat(0x10) -W-> Me(0x0B), HPMode(0x0291), data: 01 00 00 00 00 00
offset 3 is still 00

I've made a test build to emulate RC200 if control is set to RC310. We can also try with CR10, i've found infos for CR10 in #826, it's identical with RC100. Don't know if there is another setting needed for remote temperature on your system. I see that husdata get it managed, but H66 is closed source, no way to look at it.

Check with https://github.com/MichaelDvP/EMS-ESP32/releases/tag/test

[mattfro]

Tested it...seem when I set temperature I get several RC200 and it does not work getting also alarm 3071.
testbuild1.log

[MichaelDvP]

Ups. i fixed the multiple remotes and added a RC100, no need to set thermostat/hc1/control, just send thermostat/hc1/remotetemp to create a RC100. Please update again.

[mattfro]

ok, a bit better now. But no dice :)
in ems-esp it looks ok... pump I see only --C on the indoor temp and have alarm 3091 seems to come and go.
testbuild2.log

[MichaelDvP]

Hm, the error (0xBF) comes 40 sec after the latest remote message, maybe the cable remotes sending more often and timeout is shorter. I set repeat rate to 15 sec now.

[mattfro]

testbuild3.log
what are those incomplete messages? Seems we start to get those more when activating remotetemp

[mattfro]

Same result otherwise... btw, I do wonder why with setting to RC200 was the only time I actually or the pump could actually get a value for the remotetemperature form ems-esp. Is the temperature value sent in wrong format or something(or wrong offset)?

[mattfro]

one other thing... the manuals on the sensor, it says set the sensor to Fb mode(control mode) could this be something that also needs to be sent? What ever that means, otherwise you will get an alarm.

[MichaelDvP]

This is done by device address (0x38 for remote, 0x18 for master) and telegram (remote sends to master with different telegram, not to boiler).
But for all other master thermostats there is a setting to accept the remote. Also i do not see any queries to the remote in the log.

I've changed the default (without control setting) to RC200, check it.

[mattfro]

OMG this works....but not 100% sure if it fully works, but it updates the temperature even on the pump from 22 to 23% on the remotetemp
rc200_testbuild4.log

so far no alarm, and it updates the room temperature information on the pump

[MichaelDvP]

I've made some tests with my ems-boiler. Without poll-ack i have no incomplete anymore and with 15 sec repeat rate also no errors.
I've update my build, please check if this works for your system too.

[mattfro]

hmm... build with this one?
MichaelDvP@4d400bd: no poll-ack for remote thermostat (MichaelDvP)

Does not seem to work at all, now the pump does not see or notice that I have a room temp sensor.
rc200_testbuild5.log

[mattfro]

Actually, it seems to come and go. I sometimes see it and then it's gone.

[MichaelDvP]

Ok, i've added back the poll-ack.
The controller often requests F7 for Version telegram, i've added a reply for that, may it helps.
You have also some incomplete in this version without poll-ack. They are not induced by remote emulation.
How is the ems-esp connected?
(bus/service-jack? cable diameter and length? If bus connect - split or output of a module?

[mattfro]

I use this from bbqkees:
Gateway S3 (Standard WiFi Edition V3)
with EMS service cable 110cm

straight connection and no other things connected.

[mattfro]

New log with your latest build:
rc200_testbuild6.log

Maybe those incomplete does not do any harm in the end? or...

[mattfro]

Hmm... ht3, does it mean I need to set that instead of ems or ems+ in ems-esp?
Because, if I use ht3, it will miss a lot of entities and remotetemp for example will not work.
HT3:

EMS+:

Or is this something you kind of handle differently from the settings you have in ems-esp?

[MichaelDvP]

ht3, does it mean I need to set that instead of ems or ems+ in ems-esp?

No. Protocol and timing are different things, you pick the tx-mode that works best.

HT3 is the Junkers electronic and HT3 protocol is the same as EMS, only in first byte (sender) the highest bit is set. Each telegram we send starts with 0B in a buderus system, but with 8B in Junkers. This makes the devicesof different brands incompatble. EMS-ESP checks the bus on start and select the right protocol automatically. Also Junkers uses different telegram numbers/orders. The Bosch labled modules uses the same telegram numbers as buderus, but addressing like Junkers, so also incompatible, you can't connect Junkers or Buderus modules to a Bosch heating.

Tx-mode is the send timing: The client devices send by current modulation, the master by voltage modulation. This allows full duplex (Hardware mode), but depending on line impedance drawing current also influences the voltage. When sending the master repeats every byte sendet bythe device to publish it to the other devices, In tx-mode EMS we wait for the master byte before sending the next. The older Junkers seems to have a lower timeout, we need to start the next byte before the master echo is completed (HT3). EMS+ is less critical and we can wait a bit longer than one byte to allow voltage to be stabilized after the sending.

[proddy]

I'm adding that to the wiki Michael!

[mattfro]

Thanks for the explanation 🙂 last question… is this done now or something still missing? I mean it works but did you want to test something still? Otherwise we can close this discussion I guess?

[MichaelDvP]

I think it's all done, we can close this discussion. Thanks for all the logs.

[mattfro]

@MichaelDvP seems remotetemp is gone... I can't see that anymore in latest ems-esp 3.7 dev10 version.

it's hidden in customization

so I can't set it at the moment... some change in later dev that has caused this?

[mattfro]

hmm...so what should I set then I remotetemp can't be set? I used that before to set the temperature, now it's not showed in hass.
Aah, I think I understand now, need to use restcommand to set it?
service: rest_command.emsesp

so can't use mqtt to set it... because it's not there before it's set :)

[mattfro]

Sorry my mistake or misunderstanding... but in a way it would be good if that entity could be sent via mqtt even if it's empty just for this usecase? or maybe stupid for a "small" thing, have to make changes in the code.

[proddy]

I think when we moved the DeviceType to CMD it got removed from MQTT Discovery - so we need to extend support for creation of discovery topics also for Commands. I think. Haven't checked the code.

[MichaelDvP]

@mattfro You can always use mqtt/api/telnet to set the value. It's a value to use in automation, not designed to show up web/HA if not set.

[mattfro]

hmm ok... I see. Well it works via api from an automation. So let's close this again.
I had it first as the entity in homeasisstant, but when I clean it up that entity was gone. :) So that why I was wondering is it broken :)
Anyways it works with api via automation. So we can close this again. Thank you again :)

[per-lind]

@mattfro did you ever get this working in a stable way without errors?

[mattfro]

Hi, yes it works without any issues.
But you need to use dev version, I think it's only in 3.7.0 dev still