-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 0
/
diary-jan-2009.htm
111 lines (108 loc) · 10.1 KB
/
diary-jan-2009.htm
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en" xml:lang="en">
<head>
<title>diary-jan-2009 </title>
<link href=".code/preferred.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
</head>
<body>
<p class='header'>
<a href="_home.htm">Home</a> | <a href="_faq.htm">FAQ</a> | <a href="_thesis.htm">Thesis</a> | <a href="_diary.htm">Diary</a> | <a href="_projects.htm">Projects</a> | <a href="resume.htm">Resume</a> | <a href="_todo.htm">Todo</a> | <a href="_index.htm">Index</a> |<p>
<p class='main'><span class="rel">Related:</span> <a href="diary.htm">diary</a><br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jan-28-2009:</span><br/>
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:17 AM, marc fawzi wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> For example, a <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t that is <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>ed using the existing <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ency may <a href="cost.htm">cost</a></span><br/>
<span class="quot">> $1.00 <small>(US Dollar)</small> to <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>e but may be sold by its <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>er for $0.50 with</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> the purpose of killing off competition, i.e. dumping below <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>.</span><br/>
<br/>
Dumping is only a problem for <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers who intend to keep <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>. This is the <a href="trad.htm">trad</a>itional approach to Capitalistic <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion. But Capitalism is not the only way we might organize.<br/>
<br/>
<a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> seems to be necessary because that is what we <a href="trad.htm">trad</a>itionally <a href="promis.htm">promis</a>e as a 'return' for initial investments.<br/>
<br/>
But there is another way, where the <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t is NOT sold after <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion, but is instead already <a href="own.htm">own</a>ed by those intending to <a href="use.htm">use</a> it.<br/>
<br/>
There is a special case of <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership where <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> is not only unsought, but is strangely undefined!<br/>
<br/>
When the initial inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s <small>(and therefore <a href="own.htm">own</a>ers)</small> of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion are ALSO the very consumers of the output of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion <small>(the <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t)</small>, then <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion is "at <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>" as a sort of side-effect of that <a href="own.htm">own</a>ership.<br/>
<br/>
I see that you have a plan to set the <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e of each <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t that comes from any organization choosing to operate in your special manner, and maybe there is some merit to that.<br/>
<br/>
But I want to stress that you may be overlooking the self-balancing solution I describe as "treat <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e above <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> as an investment from <small>(he paid it)</small> and for <small>(he will be the <a href="own.htm">own</a>er of those <a href="new.htm">new</a> assets)</small> the very consumer who made that overpayment toward more Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es of <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion".<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<span class="quot">> The only way for <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>ers to <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>e a <a href="profit.htm">profit</a>, under the <a href="mod.htm">mod</a>el</span><br/>
<br/>
<a href="profit.htm">Profit</a> is not a prerequisite to <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion when the collective Consumers are the inve<a href="stor.htm">stor</a>s and full <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ers of those Means of <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>tion.<br/>
<br/>
This is not to imply that each Consumer must necessarily <a href="work.htm">Work</a> in all those industries he would have <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ership in.<br/>
<br/>
<span class="h2">== For example:</span><br/>
If you and I and 998 other people decide we want organic, whole, raw milk, we could get together and buy a dairy.<br/>
<br/>
We would each <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>e an initial investment based upon how much we each intend <small>(what we each forecast)</small> that we will consume.<br/>
<br/>
We would pool some of those initial investments to buy some <a href="land.htm">land</a>, water rights, <a href="liv.htm">liv</a>ing cattle, feed, tools, etc.<br/>
<br/>
We would also need to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> some <a href="skill.htm">skill</a>ed <a href="work.htm">work</a>ers to tend and milk those animals, and there are some re<a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ing <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s that we would each need to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> periodically.<br/>
<br/>
That sounds like alot of <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>ing, but it's easy to prove that a business organized in this way is cheaper for the Consumer when we consider a Capitalist dairy farmer must <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> those exact same <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s.<br/>
<br/>
All <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s must necessarily be "<a href="pass.htm">pass</a>ed on" to the Consumer <small>(the Consumer finally <a href="pay.htm">pay</a>s for all <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion)</small> for that farmer to remain in business, but what we somehow overlook is that the farmer is also intending to charge a <a href="pric.htm">pric</a>e ABOVE that <a href="cost.htm">cost</a> - so he can '<a href="profit.htm">profit</a>' from his "exchange value" based venture.<br/>
<br/>
When the <a href="produc.htm">Produc</a>t Consumers are the Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>e <a href="own.htm">Own</a>ers, then there is no reason to sell the <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t after it is made, for it is already in the hands of those intending to <a href="use.htm">use</a> it.<br/>
<br/>
Each Consuming <a href="own.htm">Own</a>er would not 'buy' the milk after it was made, they would simply go to the <a href="stor.htm">stor</a>ehouse and <a href="pic.htm">pic</a>kup what they already <a href="own.htm">OWN</a>. They each <a href="own.htm">own</a> the a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a> of <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>t they need when they each <a href="own.htm">own</a> "just the right a<a href="mount.htm">mount</a>" of Physical <a href="sourc.htm">Sourc</a>es required for that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion, and when they are willing to continue to <a href="pay.htm">pay</a> the re<a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ing <a href="cost.htm">cost</a>s of that <a href="produc.htm">produc</a>tion.<br/>
<br/>
Sincerely,<br/>
Patrick<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jan-21-2009:</span><br/>
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Michael Johnson wrote:<br/>
<span class="quot">> So a group of people decided to speak and <a href="work.htm">work</a> for the rest to solve a</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> problem. Sounds like the dawn of a governing body to me. Who gave them the</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> power to act for the rest? The people? Fine, and now they will very likely</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> be given the power by the people to take care of other problems that face</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> the group, or act on their <a href="own.htm">own</a> <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>ing the assumption they already have the</span><br/>
<span class="quot">> will of the people as their 'permission' to act. </span><br/>
<span class="quot">></span><br/>
<span class="quot">> Max Huss <maximhuss@<a class="ext" href="http://yahoo.com">yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> Patrick Anderson <<a href="agnu.htm">agnu</a>cius@<a class="ext" href="http://gmail.com">gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> "Are you saying a group of people <small>(every person on this e<a href="mail.htm">mail</a> list for</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> instance)</small> could</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> <a href="liv.htm">liv</a>e together in harmony with NO rules of conduct for</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> the scheduling and allocation of shared physical re<a href="sourc.htm">sourc</a>es?"</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>></span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> Why not?</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>></span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> For example: If we were on an is<a href="land.htm">land</a> together <small>(we already are on a</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> very large is<a href="land.htm">land</a> by the way)</small>, how would you <a href="mak.htm">mak</a>e certain that some</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> individual or group didn't <a href="use.htm">use</a> all the fresh water for themselves -</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> leaving nothing for the rest of us? This is what water privatization</span><br/>
<span class="quot3">>>> is <a href="curr.htm">curr</a>ently about.</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>></span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> I don't <a href="know.htm">know</a> why someone on an is<a href="land.htm">land</a> would need to do this, unless there</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> wasn't enough to go around.</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> But if someone kept me or others from being able to survive, we could tie</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> them up in their sleep and let the sharks deal with them. Undesireable</span><br/>
<span class="quot2">>> person removed; less mouths to feed. Both problems solved.</span><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
I approve of THAT murdering. I'm not unwilling to fight.<br/>
<br/>
We have been misled as to who the terrorists <a href="real.htm">real</a>ly are.<br/>
<br/>
Terrorists hate <a href="free.htm">free</a>dom 'cause it's bad for the market.<br/>
<br/>
The <a href="real.htm">real</a> terrorists are those that *play* Capitalism the best: the personhoods called Corporations: <a class="ext" href="http://BlueGold-WorldWaterWars.com">http://BlueGold-WorldWaterWars.com</a><br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<hr/><span class="date">Jan-21-2009:</span><br/>
</p>
<p class='footer'>
Page generated from <a href=".text/diary-jan-2009">diary-jan-2009</a> by <a href=".code/etym.el">etym</a>.</p>
</body>
</html>